PHX Sky Train (Phoenix: public schools, title, parking)

[slackjaw]

I don't get the cost either, I'd be curious how much it compares to others.

Vegas has been adding to their people-movers along the strip, I wonder how much they pay?

[Phxguy]

Originally Posted by slackjaw

I don't get the cost either, I'd be curious how much it compares to others.

Vegas has been adding to their people-movers along the strip, I wonder how much they pay?

Too much. If the monorail in Vegas wasn't a success I don't think a people mover would be either.

[azriverfan.]

What's comical is this happens all the time. Whether you are talking about Cardinals/University of Phoenix stadium, the light rail, the 202, 101, 51, Chandler Fashion Square, Kierland Commons, San Tan Village, the casinos all over the city..........there are always naysayers who oppose development in this city. When I moved here in the 90's, the arguments were the same. And every time, these things get built, no one has regrets and the naysayers hide and pretend like they never made these arguments before. I'm just glad there are enough sane people in this city who recognize that a large city like this need ammenities like the ones proposed.

[Ritchie_az]

I think some (especially the poor) regret the 2% grocery tax in Phoenix. Thankfully, I buy my food in Goodyear or Buckeye.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

What's comical is this happens all the time. Whether you are talking about Cardinals/University of Phoenix stadium, the light rail, the 202, 101, 51, Chandler Fashion Square, Kierland Commons, San Tan Village, the casinos all over the city..........there are always naysayers who oppose development in this city. When I moved here in the 90's, the arguments were the same. And every time, these things get built, no one has regrets and the naysayers hide and pretend like they never made these arguments before. I'm just glad there are enough sane people in this city who recognize that a large city like this need ammenities like the ones proposed.

That is ever so true! The transplants who move here strictly for shallow reasons like the climate, mountain views, and being only a half day's drive to the west coast often share this NIMBY/naysayer type of attitude. They move to a large metro area like this, but want to somehow return the Valley to its cowtown past, just as long as they can drive to California or Vegas on the weekends and spend their money there (instead of here).

My only complaint about some of these projects is the cost to taxpayers. I don't mind some tax money being used for necessary things, but I do think that private investment should be funding almost all of these amenities. However, it seems that no matter how the projects are funded, the pathetic NIMBYs will always wet their diapers over any kind of development or improvements. Look at the all the opposition over some of the highrise proposals (funded with private capital). The NIMBYs go absolutely nuts every time a tall building threatens to destroy "their" mountain views or "their" historical past.

[Ritchie_az]

but I do think that private investment should be funding almost all of these amenities.

Exactly! Like the UofPhoenix stadium. It's a beautiful stadium and the area that surrounds it (West Gate) is cool. But then you look at a stadium like Gillette in Mass. It's every bit as nice as where the Cardinals play, but it was paid for by the owner of the Patriots (Robert Kraft), instead of the taxpayers.


And "Patriot Place" is pretty equivalent to West Gate (also paid for by the Krafts).

No reason the same thing couldn't have happened here.

I'm not against "advancement" and "progress", but I am strongly against wasteful spending of tax dollars. I like projects that have good value. If you're going to spend huge gobs of tax dollars on something, it better be a good value. We better be able to get a good "return" on our "investment".

For example, the light rail took huge gobs of money (twice the national average per mile) to build and operate (ticket prices cover only 25% of the annual operating costs). There is certainly some return, but it's an awfully small return considering what was spent and continues to be spent. In other words, there's not a lot of value.

What I'm saying is either a) make sure that the taxpayers are getting value for their money or b) let private money do it. I don't understand this idea that the government needs to fund everything....

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Ritchie_az

Exactly! Like the UofPhoenix stadium. It's a beautiful stadium and the area that surrounds it (West Gate) is cool. But then you look at a stadium like Gillette in Mass. It's every bit as nice as where the Cardinals play, but it was paid for by the owner of the Patriots (Robert Kraft), instead of the taxpayers

I think we have to be realistic. Boston has several Fortune 500 companies not to mention universities. They have enough wealthy people who can spend like that. Phoenix doesn't possess that. It has to start somewhere. If we expect wealthy people to move here and invest in a stadium with private money, it's not going to happen.

What Phoenix and Arizona needs to do is create an environment that lures wealthy people here and we don't do that. People whine about axing the state income tax but guess what, that's what lures wealthy people to your state. People who earn a lot of money don't care about their property taxes. A major reason LeBron James, Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh chose Miami over New York was because of the no state income tax in Florida and all three admitted it influenced their decision. There are also a lot of business related taxes that Arizona could get rid of to lure businesses but don't. People whine about the lack of white collar jobs but then they get defensive about preserving the state income tax. Sorry, can't have it both ways! When white collar executives look to move or start a headquarters or create another office with a significant number of executive level jobs, do you think they are going to come here or Texas? When a guy is going to earn 500K to 1 million per year and he doesn't have to pay 6-7% on that, do you think he or she is going to find that to be attractive?

Now before someone jumps on me, I'm not saying Arizona has a unfavorable tax structure. It's one of the best states in the country regarding taxes but they could do a lot more to lure investment in this state and they don't. Case in point, Arizona lost a huge part of the Hollywood/Film scene in the early part of this decade and it went to states like New Mexico and Colorado because we stopped giving incentives to production companies. Now we are retroactively trying to get it back by offering those same incentives but it's too late now.

It's not just taxes but laws too. Arizona is one of the only states that has no medical tort reform in any capacity. And then you hear state leaders whine about the lack of doctors in this state! Typical Arizona...complains about being victimized when in reality they are part of the problem

[Ritchie_az]

I think we have to be realistic. Boston has several Fortune 500 companies not to mention universities. They have enough wealthy people who can spend like that. Phoenix doesn't possess that. It has to start somewhere. If we expect wealthy people to move here and invest in a stadium with private money, it's not going to happen.

He's rich enough to own the team, he's likely rich enough to build a stadium. Then again, Bidwell's had a losing team for so long (until recently), maybe he doesn't have money....

What Phoenix and Arizona needs to do is create an environment that lures wealthy people here and we don't do that.

I agree with that. The best way is to lower taxes.

[slackjaw]

They are really slapping this thing together fast. It looks like most of the elevated metal beams and concrete sections are in place, at least on the Eastern side. The arched part that goes over the taxiway is waaaay the hell up there man.

Does anyone know how this thing is going to be powered? I've been on some modern automated trams that were actually just cable cars, although it would take some serious torque for this one to be.

I also wonder how one gets to the station at East Economy after parking. Near the garage would be reasonable but someone parking on overflow might need a people mover to get to the people mover.

[slackjaw]

Saw in the paper they putting this thing thru test runs now, should be running early next year for the Washington -> East Economy -> Terminal 4 leg.