PHX Sky Train (Phoenix, Mesa, Tempe: home, taxis, to live in)

[acrylic]

I support this. Sure, the cost may be very high, but in the long run, it looks like a good thing. I was amazed by the modernity that was PHX. Why not progress forward? It can only benefit the city!

[he's so hott]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

One reason it isn't a hub is because our airport is not designed to be one. It's the chicken and the egg story all over again. By expanding our infrastructure, you provide Sky Harbor with the possibility of becoming a hub. I remember when DFW airport was first being built in Dallas and they had the same concerns because Dallas wasn't the commercial business giant it is today. In fact, back then, it resemebled modern Phoenix in that it was a large city that relied on the oil and gas industry but aspired to lure companies and diversify it's economy. The DFW airport has been key in helping Dallas achieved these goals. While the costs of such endeavors might seem astronomical, the price is small in the long run because it is just another component to the growth and development of this city. I'm in favor of this.

PHX isn't a hub b/c the airlines don't need it to be one. With the shape that the airline industry has been in, airlines having been cutting back on the number of hubs they have. So with Bush, DFW, Denver and LA sitting in the same service area that PHX is in, PHX doesn't need to become a hub and most likely won't become one b/c of those other airports I mentioned.

My point is that a rail system such as the one the Phoenix city government is getting ready to build at PHX becomes much more useful in a hub airport or an airport that is designed with terminal buildings that are spaced far apart. And as everyone else has said, PHX is easy to get in and out of. But I will say that the project seems reasonable to an extent. It becomes much more reasonable if there was a rail line from the southern east valley connecting to the airport rail at the rental car center.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by he's so hott

It becomes much more reasonable if there was a rail line from the southern east valley connecting to the airport rail at the rental car center.

And that is certainly possible, isn't it? As we can see in the rendering map, they are leaving space for a future commuter rail hookup.

So many people here fail to plan for the future. They have the mentality that what we have today is fine, which may be true, but keeping what we have today does just that, keeps you in "today" and when tomorrow comes around, you get left behind. Great cities plan ahead. You have to have these pieces in place before they are needed, not after. Look at the light rail...how do you think Phoenix would look/feel today had the rail been built back in the 1980s like almost happened? But no, we waited until it was just about too late to build it, waited until the city got so sprawled out that the density almost isn't there to support it.

Back to the rail connection. Imagine a commuter rail from Tucson, that traveled through the SE Valley, stopped at this new airport terminal, and then continues along Grand to the NW Valley...wouldn't that be a great benefit? You need pieces like this Sky Train in place to make things like that a reality in the future.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by he's so hott

PHX isn't a hub b/c the airlines don't need it to be one. With the shape that the airline industry has been in, airlines having been cutting back on the number of hubs they have. So with Bush, DFW, Denver and LA sitting in the same service area that PHX is in, PHX doesn't need to become a hub and most likely won't become one b/c of those other airports I mentioned.

Yes, the airlines are cutting back now due to the economy however that isn't always going to be the case. And the need for a hub is going to be dependent on demand. As the population and industry grows in Phoenix so will the demand which will automatically make our airport another hub. And for some airlines, our airport is already a hub such as Southwest Airlines to which Sky Harbor is a gateway airport to all the airports in the west. Case in point, Bush airport only had two terminals as early as 1981. Three of their terminals were completed after 1981. At the time, Chicago, DFW and Denver all had airports as well but as Houston's population and industry exploded, the need for expansion ensued and now it's another hub.

My point is that a rail system such as the one the Phoenix city government is getting ready to build at PHX becomes much more useful in a hub airport or an airport that is designed with terminal buildings that are spaced far apart. And as everyone else has said, PHX is easy to get in and out of. But I will say that the project seems reasonable to an extent. It becomes much more reasonable if there was a rail line from the southern east valley connecting to the airport rail at the rental car center.

I'm thinking of long term as in 20 years down the line. We still lack an international terminal and we are going to need one at some point. I don't see this airport being limited to 3 terminals. And the terminals are widely spaced apart. A lot of large airports with light rail or train access are easy to get in and out of such as O'hare and D.C.'s Reagan airport. That isn't the reason they have train access. Again, it has to do with deman and population. Although Phoenix is the 5th largest city, it's not the 5th largest metropolitan area. It's 13th in terms of metro so many of these cities have much larger populations that require multiple access. However, our metro is going to continue to increase in regards to population and other forms of access to the airport will be necessary.

[roosevelt]

Why didn't Light Rail go to the airport in the first place? Was it the parking and taxi lobby that blocked it? If so, now it is going to cost a fortune.

[he's so hott]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

And that is certainly possible, isn't it? As we can see in the rendering map, they are leaving space for a future commuter rail hookup.

So many people here fail to plan for the future. They have the mentality that what we have today is fine, which may be true, but keeping what we have today does just that, keeps you in "today" and when tomorrow comes around, you get left behind. Great cities plan ahead. You have to have these pieces in place before they are needed, not after. Look at the light rail...how do you think Phoenix would look/feel today had the rail been built back in the 1980s like almost happened? But no, we waited until it was just about too late to build it, waited until the city got so sprawled out that the density almost isn't there to support it.

Back to the rail connection. Imagine a commuter rail from Tucson, that traveled through the SE Valley, stopped at this new airport terminal, and then continues along Grand to the NW Valley...wouldn't that be a great benefit? You need pieces like this Sky Train in place to make things like that a reality in the future.

I agree with what you have said above.

[he's so hott]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Yes, the airlines are cutting back now due to the economy however that isn't always going to be the case. And the need for a hub is going to be dependent on demand. As the population and industry grows in Phoenix so will the demand which will automatically make our airport another hub. And for some airlines, our airport is already a hub such as Southwest Airlines to which Sky Harbor is a gateway airport to all the airports in the west. Case in point, Bush airport only had two terminals as early as 1981. Three of their terminals were completed after 1981. At the time, Chicago, DFW and Denver all had airports as well but as Houston's population and industry exploded, the need for expansion ensued and now it's another hub.

I don't disagree. However, Phoenix's pop has been exploding for the last 30 years or so.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I'm thinking of long term as in 20 years down the line. We still lack an international terminal and we are going to need one at some point. I don't see this airport being limited to 3 terminals.

Who knows. Maybe, maybe not but if that was going to happen the airport planners prolly would have mentioned it in their 10 or 15 year capital plan.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

And the terminals are widely spaced apart.

Somewhat but nothing like Bush, ATL, SFO.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by he's so hott

I don't disagree. However, Phoenix's pop has been exploding for the last 30 years or so.

Yeah, but exploding from what? We were so small back then that 30 years of explosive growth doesn't really mean anything if you are going from 900K in 1990 to 1.5 million now. We are just now getting to population levels that are comparable with the largest metros in the country.

Who knows. Maybe, maybe not but if that was going to happen the airport planners prolly would have mentioned it in their 10 or 15 year capital plan.

You are right and I agree. We have no idea. I'm being optimistic.

Somewhat but nothing like Bush, ATL, SFO.

Those airports have more terminals and bigger terminals but as I mentioned previously, Bush was just a two terminal airport not that long ago. They expanded and grew. I can see our airport easily expanding considering it is the only commercial airport in the city whereas cities like Dallas and Houston have two airports. I don't see us getting a second airport so expansion of Sky Harbor seems likely

[mikec34]

Originally Posted by acrylic

I support this. Sure, the cost may be very high, but in the long run, it looks like a good thing. I was amazed by the modernity that was PHX. Why not progress forward? It can only benefit the city!

Yeah, no kidding. What's with people and building infrastructure? This a great thing for Phoenix. It will put people to work as well and will be there forever. I'd rather the tax coin be spent on something that will benefit society for a long time than to have a few more dollars in my pocket so i can buy more junk at wally world.

Look at the new Cards stadium.. People bitched aobut that, now we have world-class stadium and everyone loves it. It may have even helped the loser cards be more motivated since they didn't have to play at a college stadium ;-] and get us a Super Bowl victory and the limelight that comes with it.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by mikec34

Yeah, no kidding. What's with people and building infrastructure? This a great thing for Phoenix. It will put people to work as well and will be there forever. I'd rather the tax coin be spent on something that will benefit society for a long time than to have a few more dollars in my pocket so i can buy more junk at wally world.

LOL...well said and this applies to all of us, yours truly. Seriously, what was I going to spend that extra coin on..some DVD's?? Tried to rep you but they wouldn't let me. It's the libertarian mentality of old Phoenix. It's a little bit of that cowboy in people in which people question spending and don't want their money just being spent on something they can't justify even if it's for infrastructure. I find that mentality endearing but also irritating at times since they question everything and don't look at the big picture or how infrastructure can lead to development and instead they just analyze the infrastructure for it's own utilty.