leaving miami for pittsburgh (Philadelphia, York: amusement park, houses, neighborhoods)

[somebodymiami]

so how would it be for a German guy who grew up in Miami to move to Pittsburgh?

honestly the only nice thing about Miami is the weather

give me the bad and good about Pittsburgh right now, and what you think it will be like in 3 years.

[BrianTH]

Miami and Pittsburgh couldn't be much more different. Different history, different demographics, different topography . . . the list could be very long.

The bad about Pittsburgh is that about 25-30 years ago it went through a terrible economic crisis caused by the sharp contraction of local mass-employment industries, most notably the steel industry. Lots of young adults left to look for work elsewhere, setting off a population loss dynamic that is just now starting to end. It has left a legacy of vacant properties and underfunded pensions, inadequate recent investment in infrastructure, and an undercurrent of negativism among long-time natives or people who left in this period.

But ironically, that is also the cause of much of what is good about Pittsburgh right now. Housing is oversupplied so it remained cheap, and we dodged the worst of the housing bubble and financial crisis. The mass contraction of our top industries forced us to adopt a more diversified economy that has done relatively well in the recession. We're just now beginning the process of urban core renewal that other cities began in the '80s and '90s, which can be exciting. We've got the cultural and architectural legacy of a much bigger city, but with fewer people competing to use those resources. And so forth.

What things will be like in three years depends a bit on the national economy. We haven't completely escaped the effects of the recession, and the pace of redevelopment has slowed as the national development financing markets have frozen. I think we are starting to attract potential workers from harder-hit areas, which likely is going to accelerate the population turnaround, but we need to find ways to put those people to work. And we still have to deal with those legacy financial issues, which won't be painless.

So we'll see. But with a little luck, in three years we will be on a moderate growth path, with steady investment in the urban core and a renewed sense of excitement for what the next couple decades could look like.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Miami and Pittsburgh couldn't be much more different. Different history, different demographics, different topography . . . the list could be very long.

The bad about Pittsburgh is that about 25-30 years ago it went through a terrible economic crisis caused by the sharp contraction of local mass-employment industries, most notably the steel industry. Lots of young adults left to look for work elsewhere, setting off a population loss dynamic that is just now starting to end. It has left a legacy of vacant properties and underfunded pensions, inadequate recent investment in infrastructure, and an undercurrent of negativism among long-time natives or people who left in this period.

But ironically, that is also the cause of much of what is good about Pittsburgh right now. Housing is oversupplied so it remained cheap, and we dodged the worst of the housing bubble and financial crisis. The mass contraction of our top industries forced us to adopt a more diversified economy that has done relatively well in the recession. We're just now beginning the process of urban core renewal that other cities began in the '80s and '90s, which can be exciting. We've got the cultural and architectural legacy of a much bigger city, but with fewer people competing to use those resources. And so forth.

What things will be like in three years depends a bit on the national economy. We haven't completely escaped the effects of the recession, and the pace of redevelopment has slowed as the national development financing markets have frozen. I think we are starting to attract potential workers from harder-hit areas, which likely is going to accelerate the population turnaround, but we need to find ways to put those people to work. And we still have to deal with those legacy financial issues, which won't be painless.

So we'll see. But with a little luck, in three years we will be on a moderate growth path, with steady investment in the urban core and a renewed sense of excitemrnt for what the next couple decades could look like.

Couldn't have really said it any better. I hope you don't mind snow and the winter again also.

[somebodymiami]

^^ thanks, yeah Miami just had its downtown gentrified in 2000 before the recession, and it still needs lots of work, houses in the hood still go for 120k

is there and area with a big German community? or Italian?

i dont mind snow that much, been in it in nj and in germany.

[DaBurgh]

Almost every complaint can be found in this thread. Long read though.

//www.city-data.com/forum/pitts...ittsburgh.html

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by somebodymiami

is there and area with a big German community? or Italian?

So a HUGE number of Germans and Italians moved to Pittsburgh during the boom era (Germans, Italians, and Irish were the Big Three), but that was quite a while ago at this point and most of that population has subsequently intermarried and scattered around.

Bloomfield is considered Pittsburgh's Little Italy, and it does still have a bit of that vibe.

The North Side was the prime German area (there is even a section called Deutschtown), plus some nearby suburbs like Millvale and Reserve. But again, that isn't really so true anymore (I think those areas have been converging on the general percentage of Germans in the area). Probably the biggest contemporary German influence is that there are a bunch of German companies in the region (Pittsburgh is a popular metro area for German companies to have their North American HQs or at least major operations.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So a HUGE number of Germans and Italians moved to Pittsburgh during the boom era (Germans, Italians, and Irish were the Big Three), but that was quite a while ago at this point and most of that population has subsequently intermarried and scattered around.

Bloomfield is considered Pittsburgh's Little Italy, and it does still have a bit of that vibe.

The North Side was the prime German area (there is even a section called Deutschtown), plus some nearby suburbs like Millvale and Reserve. But again, that isn't really so true anymore (I think those areas have been converging on the general percentage of Germans in the area). Probably the biggest contemporary German influence is that there are a bunch of German companies in the region (Pittsburgh is a popular metro area for German companies to have their North American HQs or at least major operations.

With German cultrue in Pittsburgh, there is the Hofbrahaus restaurant in South Side Works, the Teutonia Mannerchor on the North Side which is place where you become a member, and these links will help you more:
GlobalPittsburgh.org: German (http://www.globalpittsburgh.org/communities/index.jsp?pageId=0690200091781090187613591 - broken link)
And here is the link for the Mannerchor Welcome to Teutonia Mannerchor. Not the best website but it is a nice club I was in a couple times when my grandfather was a member before he died.

[MissShona]

Hey welcome to the club! I'm not 'from' Miami...but I lived there for 6 years. The biggest differences in my opinion are:

1) The topography. Pittsburgh is hilly and even those of us with a good sense of direction need practice when getting around. Since the GPS has come out...things have gotten easier. Although I find my GPS routes me to some crazy paths sometimes (I often know of better, off-the-beaten-path shortcuts). So as a newbie, allot extra time to get to your destination. Also the physical aspect of driving a car is very, very different here. In Miami, I drove a stick shift, and could still eat and drive. Up here I drive an automatic and the turns, braking, etc. make doing anything while you drive a bit tougher. Be prepared to keep up on the maintenance on your car! The hills do a number on your brakes; the salt in the winter does a number on your undercarriage; and PA has state inspection to catch everything else.

2) Diversity. Pittsburgh is not a haven for immigrants. Although we do have some major universities and hospitals in the area that draw some in, Pittsburgh is not a place where people just tend to immigrate to. The Hispanic population here in minuscule. I don't have any Spanish language TV channels in my cable package (although I think the fios people do).

3) Geographical location. Pittsburgh is in a great location. You are within a days drive of Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, Toronto, New York City, and Philadelphia. If you want to stretch it, you can get to Chicago and Boston as well. Big difference from Miami where it can take 4 to 5 hours just to get to Tampa and Orlando -- and 9 to get to Atlanta.

4) Nightlife. Going out in Pittsburgh is cheaper and less pretentious than going out in Miami. Pittsburgh is NOT cutting edge when it comes to style and trends. However if you are into the cultural arts and independent entertainment, Pittsburgh is miles ahead of Miami. The area has a lot of 'old money' (Carnegie, Frick, and Westinghouse) that established things like the Pittsburgh Symphony and Ballet....numerous museums and art galleries, a great zoo and amusement park (Kennywood), and various galleries and studios. Local and independent music are better here too in that there are all types of live music venues all over the area.

5) Housing and cost of living. Pittsburgh is cheaper in this area, plain and simple. You can pick up a house for $50K...if you want to.

6) Weather. Miami is better; in spite of the humidity and the relentless heat. Personally I can't stand snow...and the lack of sun here is a real downer.

7) Social life. In spite of people being rude and superficial in Miami, I think that Miami beats Pittsburgh in terms of social life. I guess if you are from here, it is ok. But so many people here had their core group of friends from the time they were in their early 20s. People are super friendly here; it just might take a while to find your core circle of friends if you are an outsider. In Miami, you have a lot more people out and about. Here, you go to downtown Pittsburgh during the week and after 8pm the place is deserted. There is no real counterpart to South Beach, Bayside or Coconut Grove here. We have the Southside....but to me, it feels like a bar crawl for all the college students from Pitt, CMU and Duquesne mostly.

8) Attitudes. I think people in Miami are more driven and more ambitious professionally. In Pittsburgh, people are more socially conscious and politically involved. Also Pittsburgh has an image problem (for better or for worse). Be prepared for people to scratch their heads when they hear that you left Miami for Pittsburgh (happens to me all of the time!).

9) Crime. Pittsburgh is safer than Miami for sure.

10) Aesthetics. Both Pittsburgh and Miami are very photogenic cities. However, close up...Pittsburgh is a bit uglier than Miami. It starts with our roads. They are bad. Then there are so many neighborhoods around the area that just look incredibly depressing. Miami has some true ghettos for sure; but at least the ghettos have some color to them.

I think Pittsburgh is a great city; but I find myself missing Miami a lot. As a Black woman and a child of immigrants, I don't really enjoy the insulated feel of Pittsburgh. That and the social vibe here is too homogeneous, and too un-worldly for me. That and the weather here is soooo bad. Not at the moment....but the winters are killer.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by MissShona

I don't have any Spanish language TV channels in my cable package (although I think the fios people do).

Fios does have it but it's a national feed much like you would get from DISH and DirecTV but the poster is German so there's no need to worry about that.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

Fios does have it but it's a national feed much like you would get from DISH and DirecTV but the poster is German so there's no need to worry about that.

You never know. Just because they are German does not mean they don't know or like Spanish. I knew quite a few non-Hispanic people in Miami who became fluent in Spanish. I started to really enjoy the Spanish soap operas and picked up enough Spanish to go shopping in Hialeah and Miami Lakes.