Music venue/art gallery proposal (Pittsburgh, Greensburg: city hall, rental, insurance) - Pennsylvania (PA) - City-Data Forum

neurodistortion · 08-15-2010, 11:30 PM

I've been considering starting up a music venue/art gallery in the area for a while, preferably in Greensburg since there's really nothing in the way of small local venues here except for the big performing arts centers like the Palace Theater. There's also only three venues I can think of that are located within a 30 minute radius of Greensburg, the closest one being in Jeannette, which is ridiculously small but serves its purpose as a small cafe and art gallery with live music from time to time.

My concept of this venue would be rather simple and straightforward, art gallery from regional artists during the day to live performance venue by evening on certain nights, ranging from acoustic to punk and metal shows. I would also like to have the so-called "dance bashes" once a month, which would set us apart from other venues and basically be an all-ages dance and leisure gathering with music from today's mainstream bands and live entertainment from a DJ. The idea is to have at least one acoustic, two live bands and one dance bash each month. Also, the art that I would like to display could be classified as "alternative" or unusual, but not inappropriate. This is just a small sampling of what this place would entail.

I'm still working on details relating to pricing, admission and other expenses. I'm also looking at a minimal investment, no more than $1000. I'm not looking to get rich off this thing but I'm at least expecting for it to be profitable. I would just like a place where kids can go to, listen to music and hangout for a few hours while not spending a lot of money and where works of art can be displayed for the general public. I would prefer to rent a place somewhere, at least where there's no residents living within the same building as I wouldn't want to cause a disturbance with all the live music. I've seen some ads for some office space in the area ranging from $195-500 for anywhere from 250-700 sq ft and also includes utilities and parking in some cases. 500 sq ft is the magic number though, I don't want something too small or too big. Would it make a difference whether the land was zoned business or commercial, or if the building was designated as offices or retail? I'm trying to stay away from retail space since it typically costs more.

Also, what licenses, liability, if any, would I be required to have? Bands would likely be selling goods but they usually don't require a license of their own and we would only be selling a few things such as drinks and snacks for patrons. Food would not a big part of our operations, it would just be complimentary to the business. I've also never heard of a venue requiring to have a business license but I could be wrong. In addition, there will not be alcohol sold.

Renaldo5000 · 08-16-2010, 01:17 AM

So, you would be functioning as a promoter at somebody else's place of business or you would be the owner/operator of said venue? Either way, I would declare a corporation (an S or C corp). That way if anybody sues you they can't come after your personal assets.

If you are an owner/operator of a venue then $1,000 isn't going to be enough. You need to factor in money for a lease, security deposit, insurance, actual stuff to put in the place, etc.. I'd say you're looking at $5,000 at the absolute minimum. Probably more like $10,000.

Contact your local city hall to ask about any regulations, restrictions or licenses you might need.

neurodistortion · 08-16-2010, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

So, you would be functioning as a promoter at somebody else's place of business or you would be the owner/operator of said venue? Either way, I would declare a corporation (an S or C corp). That way if anybody sues you they can't come after your personal assets.

If you are an owner/operator of a venue then $1,000 isn't going to be enough. You need to factor in money for a lease, security deposit, insurance, actual stuff to put in the place, etc.. I'd say you're looking at $5,000 at the absolute minimum. Probably more like $10,000.

Contact your local city hall to ask about any regulations, restrictions or licenses you might need.

I would be owning my own venue. Frankly, the most I'll invest out of my own pocket is $1,000, although I may consider taking out a business loan to cover the costs of starting up. Regarding stuff to put in the place, there's not going to be much in the way of furnishings in this venue... other than a few tables, chairs and other stuff that I already have available, I'm keeping it simple but functional. Art related material is also within reach so I won't have to worry about that. As for audio equipment for shows and such, I already know a few people that are willing to set their equipment up for said shows. Since I won't be hosting shows every other day, I don't see the need to buy my own equipment, which can cost thousands of dollars alone. I'm not looking to create Diesel or the House of Blues, it's just going to be something small, something down-low and in tune to the community. Think of the Smiling Moose, but without the bar.

Rent is a big factor, I'm not looking to spend more than $500/month on rent, and I would even prefer something that costs less as long as the space is suitable. Anything more and it might not be viable. I think 500 sq ft (roughly 14' x 36') at $500/month is doable. I'm also not looking at modifying the rental space or building anything else other than some stuff in the stage area in addition to a few signs and whatever I already have available. One thing that I'm concerned with though is liability insurance, how much is that going to cost alone?

gameguy56 · 08-16-2010, 07:40 AM

Look at renting a storefront on Penn Ave in Bloomfield. That seems to be a place where a ton of art galleries and performance spaces are popping up.

alise007 · 08-16-2010, 08:00 AM

I would find out what the Fire Codes allow for Occupancy in 500 sq ft...if you can't get a enough people in the space to cover costs that might be a problem! Seems very small IMHO. I have a 2800 sq ft house and my downstairs area of dining/living and kitchen that are all open to each other seemed crowded when I had a Xmas office party of 15 people.

greg42 · 08-16-2010, 08:28 AM

500 sq ft doesn't need much sound equipment, that's for sure.

Is very small. My house has approx 1000 sq ft on the main floor. Half of that. How many people do you think you could get in there? If you put tables in there I think you'd have trouble getting more than about 30-40 people, and that might even be a stretch. But maybe that's enough? I dunno.

Fire code is important but with tables it's unlikely to be over. But there will be a max occupancy, and if it has only one exit it will be lower, so you might want to hope the place has two doors. Check on this code early, though, because there may be an obvious issue here that would make the whole thing not workable.

Good luck.

dirimini · 08-16-2010, 10:52 AM

I have no practical advice to offer, but am reading this thread with great interest - because I would love to be able to do something just like this in the P'burgh area.

Renaldo5000 · 08-16-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirimini

I have no practical advice to offer, but am reading this thread with great interest - because I would love to be able to do something just like this in the P'burgh area.

There are already tons of places like this in Pittsburgh. They open up Garfield artworks to shows (and have art stuff around). They had that Middle-Eastern/Istanbul cafe on Butler that closed down. Project 53 in Polish Hill..etc..etc..

gameguy56 · 08-16-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

There are already tons of places like this in Pittsburgh. They open up Garfield artworks to shows (and have art stuff around). They had that Middle-Eastern/Istanbul cafe on Butler that closed down. Project 53 in Polish Hill..etc..etc..

Istanbul is still there. It was "Your Inner Vagabond" that closed down. Istanbul moved into that building to take it's place.

dirimini · 08-16-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

There are already tons of places like this in Pittsburgh. They open up Garfield artworks to shows (and have art stuff around). They had that Middle-Eastern/Istanbul cafe on Butler that closed down. Project 53 in Polish Hill..etc..etc..

Yes, this is what I was thinking - the market might already be over-saturated.