Music venue/art gallery proposal (Pittsburgh, Penn: for sale, to rent, costs)

[gameguy56]

Originally Posted by dirimini

Yes, this is what I was thinking - the market might already be over-saturated.

Definitely not. Come to Pittsburgh and open up a show space. Please. There is a strong local DIY community but more is always better. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of empty storefronts that could use some loving.

[dirimini]

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Definitely not. Come to Pittsburgh and open up a show space. Please. There is a strong local DIY community but more is always better. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of empty storefronts that could use some loving.

If I really thought I could make a go of it - that is, if I did my research, crunched the numbers, and thought it would stand a good chance of success - I'd be there in a heartbeat.

This has been one of my dreams for a long time.

[neurodistortion]

Originally Posted by dirimini

Yes, this is what I was thinking - the market might already be over-saturated.

Frankly, I don't feel the same way, and in Greensburg, definitely not the case, in fact there's a need for something like this here. As in any business, you're better off to have connections with people who know their stuff. People with experience booking bands, someone who knows how to set up and run the equipment, someone with art experience, etc. I've been going to different venues around the area for the past 10 years now so I have an idea what I like to see, but to get a better understanding, it's best to talk to the owners of these venues and get an idea of what their business is like and how they managed to start off.

[neurodistortion]

Originally Posted by alise007

I would find out what the Fire Codes allow for Occupancy in 500 sq ft...if you can't get a enough people in the space to cover costs that might be a problem! Seems very small IMHO. I have a 2800 sq ft house and my downstairs area of dining/living and kitchen that are all open to each other seemed crowded when I had a Xmas office party of 15 people.

Occupancy is a big concern as you've pointed out... in the places I've been to, the spaces were rather small but they could still hold upwards of 40-50 people, if not more. I don't expect to have huge crowds at my shows, but I do expect a healthy turnout. That's one reason why I don't want a bunch of furnishings throughout the place in case there happens to be a lot of people and also for liability purposes. Even just checking the place out, I can get a feel for what it's going to be like and see how many people it can probably hold, but any final determination would really be up to the fire marshal.

Likewise, lets do a little math. Lets say we have 50 people attending a show featuring three bands that costs $8 to get in, we would split the difference between the bands and I, or in other words, that would be $2 for each band. I would also get $2. 50 people times $8 is $400, so the bands and I would all make $100 each. My minimum here is 3 shows a month with a minimum of 3 bands per show so following this formula, I would be making approximately $300/month just doing these shows. In addition, I'll be charging bands a sales fee of $6 if they choose to sell merchandise in my venue. However, they don't have to pay to perform. Reputation is key to a successful venue, you have to be fair. Nice thing about bands is that they can promote their shows for you through online and traditional mediums and many of them even have their own MySpace or Facebook so there's a lot of people that they can target. The "Dance Bashes" event, which I would likely hold two each month, would be priced $6 so 50 people would produce $600/month in profit for admissions alone. Food and drinks for each event would also come at a cost but I don't expect it to be a big part of our operations and therefore will be limited to a few choices. Overall, my profit expectations aren't very high, and as such I only expect to produce around $1,000/month just doing these shows alone. If I have to, I'll adjust the numbers to hit that goal. Likewise, the remaining profit that we get will come from displaying the artwork and for donations since I won't be charging people to just stop by and check out the art.

[dirimini]

Originally Posted by neurodistortion

Frankly, I don't feel the same way, and in Greensburg, definitely not the case, in fact there's a need for something like this here. As in any business, you're better off to have connections with people who know their stuff. People with experience booking bands, someone who knows how to set up and run the equipment, someone with art experience, etc. I've been going to different venues around the area for the past 10 years now so I have an idea what I like to see, but to get a better understanding, it's best to talk to the owners of these venues and get an idea of what their business is like and how they managed to start off.

I agree 100% - which makes it very daunting for a newcomer without those very important connections. Certainly, part of making it viable is sheer determination, hard work, and general industriousness (as well as a good "sense" of the cultural climate) - but having previous hands-on experience, as well as those sorts of connections who have done it themselves (both of which I lack at this point) is probably indispensible.

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by neurodistortion

Likewise, lets do a little math. Lets say we have 50 people attending a show featuring three bands that costs $8 to get in, we would split the difference between the bands and I, or in other words, that would be $2 for each band. I would also get $2. 50 people times $8 is $400, so the bands and I would all make $100 each. My minimum here is 3 shows a month with a minimum of 3 bands per show so following this formula, I would be making approximately $300/month just doing these shows. In addition, I'll be charging bands a sales fee of $6 if they choose to sell merchandise in my venue.

Are you going to pay a door guy to take money, sound guy and security guy? Who is going to promote the shows? Printing up flyers costs money.

Something like this might fly in Greensburg because there is nothing there...but in Pittsburgh I doubt it. There are a myriad of venues already here that cover every niche possible. There are also a lot of "party/show" houses around (especially in the punk scene).

[neurodistortion]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

Are you going to pay a door guy to take money, sound guy and security guy? Who is going to promote the shows? Printing up flyers costs money.

Something like this might fly in Greensburg because there is nothing there...but in Pittsburgh I doubt it. There are a myriad of venues already here that cover every niche possible. There are also a lot of "party/show" houses around (especially in the punk scene).

Since everything would be conducted in-house, the plan is to have at least three people helping out with various things ranging from technical issues to security and everything in between. These wages are tentative and would be paid under the table at the end of each show.

The venue assistant would be helping out with a number of things such as the cash handling/ticket verification at the door, food and drink sales and general upkeep of the place. I would step in and assist when need be. I could have this person at the door before and at the start of the show and then move him/her to the food and drink area. They'll be paid $7.50/hour or $22.50 for approximately 3 hours work.

The security assistant would be there handling any problems that may arise, although I'm not expecting any problems as these shows would only have a small group of people. The security person would be stationary at the door and would act as a door person during the duration of the show. I would also step in when need be. This person would be paid the same amount as the venue assistant, $7.50/hour or $22.50 for approximately 3 hours work.

The sound assistant would be responsible for the audio equipment, in addition but not limited to operation of said audio equipment, troubleshooting issues, etc. This person would be paid $10/hour or $30 for approximately 3 hours work.

I would be handling the promotion department, printing of flyers, etc. In addition, I would have a MySpace and a Facebook page to get the word across of this venue and any events that may take place within.

[Keynote Cafe]

I am responding from the "ridiculously small" venue you referred to in Jeannette. I can't help but wonder if you have ever been to the Keynote Cafe. We are 3 floors with a stage in the underground, an acoustic area in the cafe and a lounge in the balcony. We host live music every Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings. We encourage all genres of musicians to come and play at our open mics and we have many of the local festivals and event planners in the area calling us for help seeking and booking local talent. We have over 50 local artists showing their work at any one of our art openings throughout the year. We do not charge to hang nor do we take a commission to sell their work. We are considered a "haven" and a "respite" from the outside world where our main focus is to provide a comfortable, relaxed atmosphere for budding musicians to grow and experienced musicians to hang and experiment. We are a local performance venue and art gallery for area folks and we just celebrated our Third Anniversary. Regarding your idea, hardly original, but just from your posts, it looks like you've got some research to do.
Peace~

[neurodistortion]

Originally Posted by Keynote Cafe

I am responding from the "ridiculously small" venue you referred to in Jeannette. I can't help but wonder if you have ever been to the Keynote Cafe. We are 3 floors with a stage in the underground, an acoustic area in the cafe and a lounge in the balcony. We host live music every Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings. We encourage all genres of musicians to come and play at our open mics and we have many of the local festivals and event planners in the area calling us for help seeking and booking local talent. We have over 50 local artists showing their work at any one of our art openings throughout the year. We do not charge to hang nor do we take a commission to sell their work. We are considered a "haven" and a "respite" from the outside world where our main focus is to provide a comfortable, relaxed atmosphere for budding musicians to grow and experienced musicians to hang and experiment. We are a local performance venue and art gallery for area folks and we just celebrated our Third Anniversary. Regarding your idea, hardly original, but just from your posts, it looks like you've got some research to do.
Peace~

Keynote, I appreciate your time to respond. Regarding the "ridiculously small" claim that I made regarding your venue, I'm speaking from my own personal experience attending shows that your place has held throughout the years. Although I've enjoyed attending shows there, the underground level where most of your performances are held just seems rather small, mind you my own personal opinion, but like I've previously said, it does serve a purpose as a local venue and continues to be successful which is what's important. Sometimes you have to make use of the space available to make it work efficiently. Three floors may add up in square footage, but you have a cafe and lounge on both of those levels.

[nuwaver88]

BTW, does anybody remember The Artery? It was a cool venue on Ellsworth Avenue that opened around 1990 and closed a few years later. I think it is in the space where Soba occupies, but I am not sure. It was an art gallery, eatery, and performance space. I would go see bands there all the time. In fact, Pittsburgh circa 1990 had more venues for local bands within the city neighborhoods where people wanted to be, as opposed to having to go to Millvale etc. The scene was better then as far as venues go.
There is a vacancy on Ellsworth at the corner of College. It is the location of the old College Inn. Burns and Scalo is the realtor. I dare not ask the rental price, since your budget is modest. If it were not, this is where you want to be. It has been vacant for several years, so give them a call. Who knows?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...90.26,,0,-2.17