5th avenue high school (Pittsburgh, Oakland: real estate market, lease, crime rate)

[Evergrey]

It seems like every time Pittsburghers complain and scratch heads over a new high-priced apartment complex in the urban core... it ends up 99% occupied with a waiting list in the hundreds.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It's still comparably cheap to own here, and I'd think that such units would have more draw if they were condos, or at least gave the option of either renting or buying units.

A few years ago developers agreed with you--there were a lot of higher-priced condo projects in relation to higher-priced apartment projects. Then the apartments started renting out immediately, but condo sales became relatively slow.

I think part of that is just the housing bust making people a lot more cautious about buying. That arguably doesn't make sense in Pittsburgh, but I think a lot of people aren't inclined to draw distinctions like that, or at least not bet a lot of money on such a distinction.

That said, there are also some good arguments in favor of renting, at least for a while. Renting gives you the option to make a low-cost move in the future. That can be useful not just if you plan to leave the area, but also if you plan to move within the area. That in turn can make sense if, say, you are expecting significant lifestyle changes in the future (e.g., a single person expecting to start a family sometime in the medium-term future, but not yet).

Anyway, it is relatively easy to convert back and forth from condos and apartments as the market dictates. Right now for whatever reason, the market is saying it wants more apartments. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if some of these apartments were converted to condos down the road.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

It seems like every time Pittsburghers complain and scratch heads over a new high-priced apartment complex in the urban core... it ends up 99% occupied with a waiting list in the hundreds.

I definitely think intuitions built up during prior decades of experience with Pittsburgh may lead people astray today. Things are changing rapidly in the core area--not rapidly by the standards of a lot of other cities, but in ways Pittsburgh has not had much recent experience with.

[ML North]

I'm glad to see this project moving along because I've long been a fan of both that building and the Hill District in general.

Anyway, $725 for a brand new studio just doesn't strike me as expensive anymore. At one time not that long ago I paid rent of $250/month, but I've just become used to seeing these higher rents. And in reality, they're still not really high, more just not as low as they used to be.

[BrianTH]

It is all relative. That pricing is pretty standard for new units in the core area, which collectively are priced at a bit of a premium to older units (which makes sense given the relative undersupply of new units). But of course the issue above is whether units in the Bluff in particular could actually be priced at that standard level for new units in the core area.

[ML North]

I think there is a bit of a discount priced into those rents. $725 will not get you a brand new loft in Southside, Shadyside, or even down in the Heinz Lofts.

As a point a reference, the proposed rents for the Fifth Ave High School building look to be slightly lower than what is being successfully collected at Washington Plaza. Of course Washington Plaza is a little closer to Downtown, but this new building looks like it will be much nicer. Of course we'll have to wait and see what happens, but I definitely have some confidence.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by ML North

I'm glad to see this project moving along because I've long been a fan of both that building and the Hill District in general.

Anyway, $725 for a brand new studio just doesn't strike me as expensive anymore. At one time not that long ago I paid rent of $250/month, but I've just become used to seeing these higher rents. And in reality, they're still not really high, more just not as low as they used to be.

I used to tell my friends who worked low-wage jobs (high school diploma only), but were debt free, that they could potentially move to Pittsburgh and find a studio in the $300s or $400s and live a decent life style, car-free.

I think that's still possible if you're really searching for it, but I no longer tell people about it since it's such a hard thing to obtain these days. So while $725 isn't truly expensive, it's enough to push out low-wage people and people like myself, who are throwing money at student loan debt (incidentally, I can't stand small studios and a lack of outdoor space, so this complex doesn't appeal to me anyway).

[Evergrey]

There's definitely a lack of inventory in Pittsburgh... it's been ranked as one of the tightest rental markets in the nation in recent years... reflecting the dearth of construction during the "Steel Depression" years coupled with the recent developments of strong in-migration. (of course, in today's financial climate... it's hard to finance the construction of new units)

Young adults boost demand for apartments in, around Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Apartments Hard To Find In Pittsburgh « CBS Pittsburgh

[BrianTH]

I won't argue with the proposition that there are neighborhoods where these apartments would likely be priced even higher. Again, the answer to the question of whether this is premium or discount pricing is going to be determined by your baseline for comparison.

[Blackbeauty212]

Speaking of which....

Pittsburgh looks to spark development - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review