This Must Stop! (Pittsburgh, Penn: move, bars, license)

[pman]

Originally Posted by greg42

They close at 5 on Saturday. Otherwise food until 10 and booze until midnight.
Can't say if they've tried being open Saturday night yet. You might ask them that. They may have tried and found not enough people want their environment for Saturday night. Wouldn't surprise me.
I don't begrudge anyone for being closed one day a week. Sometimes I wish it wasn't Sunday, but whatever.

the OP was trying to go there but couldn't because it was closed (on sat)and mentioned that others were doing the same. place was pretty full on friday. lots of restaurants choose monday since people usually stay home or pack a lunch on monday. as has been mentioned here, even if it's for big weekends like when the mets, phillies, or red sox are in town or the three rivers festival, etc. I'm sure visitor numbers are available from some place.

[greg42]

Eh, been down this road before. We just disagree about expecting every business to be open to our whims. Those people need a life too. Heck, Costco, Costco!, closes at 6pm on Saturdays, and it was closed on Labor Day. I like them more for it really, not less, even though sometimes I wish I could go in at 7 or 8pm on Saturday, and I went to other stores on Labor Day. For a small business, it's an even tougher juggling act trying to figure out the best hours.

Maybe these guys have tried it, maybe they haven't. I certainly would disagree that "Oh they should be open because all these people were around." This doesn't actually translate into "I guess they don't want to make money" because it's quite possible they already tried it and don't, in fact, make money. The only thing that works is trying it out. And you can't always plan to do special hours for supposed busy weekends.

[tomspoon]

Originally Posted by greg42

Eh, been down this road before. We just disagree about expecting every business to be open to our whims. Those people need a life too.

Bingo. If a business owner is OK giving up a little extra profit if it means extra time to be a human being, who are we to say it's a mistake?

[nuwaver88]

Originally Posted by tomspoon

Bingo. If a business owner is OK giving up a little extra profit if it means extra time to be a human being, who are we to say it's a mistake?

I agree to an extent. Unfortuantely, visitors to a major city not only hope, but expect for restaurants to be open when they want them to be. In a perfect world, we would all have more leisure time. That is not the American Way I'm sorry to say.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by nuwaver88

I agree to an extent. Unfortuantely, visitors to a major city not only hope, but expect for restaurants to be open when they want them to be. In a perfect world, we would all have more leisure time. That is not the American Way I'm sorry to say.

But what you're saying here is the visitors are entitled to their leisure time, but the people operating the restaurants are not. If that's the double standard you want to insist upon, fine, but I'm going to point out it's a double standard.

It's not like these folks are operating a hotel that's closed some days of the week. It's a restaurant. If someone is so obsessed with the effect on visitors, they can subsidize the opening/training/whatever it might take to get the restaurant to be open more days/hours.

[SteelCityRising]

I suppose I still don't understand this "lack of leisure time" argument as a justification for many Downtown business operating at such irregular hours. I typically get every other weekend off at my one job with a weekday off thrown in for good measure now and then. Why? We have enough staffing to justify not needing everyone to be there 24/7. Why is the only option for Downtown businesses "be closed or make our employees work more hours?" Why not hire a few more part-timers to justify being open more hours, especially if the increased business will more than pay for the increased staffing level?

[gg]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I suppose I still don't understand this "lack of leisure time" argument as a justification for many Downtown business operating at such irregular hours. I typically get every other weekend off at my one job with a weekday off thrown in for good measure now and then. Why? We have enough staffing to justify not needing everyone to be there 24/7. Why is the only option for Downtown businesses "be closed or make our employees work more hours?" Why not hire a few more part-timers to justify being open more hours, especially if the increased business will more than pay for the increased staffing level?

You can't compare a delivery job with restaurant operation. Much of restaurant business is cash and employees can rob owners blind. If the place is big enough they can have management staff, but not all do. Therefore, owners can manage themselves if they are not open too many hours. If they are open lots of hours then there is the need of hiring of a manager. That is a huge expense. Can restaurant sales justify hiring a manager with benefits? That is a lot of sales and lets face it, downtown is a bit of a ghost town most weekday nights. Friday is no doubt the biggest night out down there. Saturday can also be dead. Sunday is a total ghost town.

I hope this explains the horns of the dilemma.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I suppose I still don't understand this "lack of leisure time" argument as a justification for many Downtown business operating at such irregular hours. I typically get every other weekend off at my one job with a weekday off thrown in for good measure now and then. Why? We have enough staffing to justify not needing everyone to be there 24/7. Why is the only option for Downtown businesses "be closed or make our employees work more hours?" Why not hire a few more part-timers to justify being open more hours, especially if the increased business will more than pay for the increased staffing level?

Probably because the increased business hasn't proven to be enough to cover the costs of hiring and training people. There's a lot of time/money that goes into training people to the level of operating the shop. Then they up and quit anyway, right? So then you get to train some more.

I'm not saying it's a choice between opening and leisure time. I'm saying that ALL these things figure in: costs, training, employee turnover, lack of business during certain hours, leisure time, and more. I'm saying the armchair quarterbacks on here who think they have eyeballed enough business to justify these places being open do not really have a handle on the situation. They may be right, but they may not be. The shop may already have tried being open those times and gave up precisely because there isn't enough business. There's no certainty there. I'm saying it takes a lot more to be open extra time and maintain quality than just hiring a couple part-timers. I'm saying that people chattering about this don't really know what it takes and what these people are putting into their businesses, they just want it to be open more without regard to these issues.

That's all. I don't even own a damn business and I can see this. I find it odd that others don't really want to recognize this.

[pman]

Originally Posted by greg42

Eh, been down this road before. We just disagree about expecting every business to be open to our whims. Those people need a life too. Heck, Costco, Costco!, closes at 6pm on Saturdays, and it was closed on Labor Day. I like them more for it really, not less, even though sometimes I wish I could go in at 7 or 8pm on Saturday, and I went to other stores on Labor Day. For a small business, it's an even tougher juggling act trying to figure out the best hours.

Maybe these guys have tried it, maybe they haven't. I certainly would disagree that "Oh they should be open because all these people were around." This doesn't actually translate into "I guess they don't want to make money" because it's quite possible they already tried it and don't, in fact, make money. The only thing that works is trying it out. And you can't always plan to do special hours for supposed busy weekends.

this is a peculiar opinion, quite frankly, and oddly disconnected from the world of restaurants. Personally, I find my wife's remark a lot more on the money than yours. as brian says, oftentimes it takes an outsider to shake things up.

Originally Posted by tomspoon

Bingo. If a business owner is OK giving up a little extra profit if it means extra time to be a human being, who are we to say it's a mistake?

umm, people on the internet posting on a message board.

Originally Posted by SteelCityrising

I suppose I still don't understand this "lack of leisure time" argument as a justification for many Downtown business operating at such irregular hours.

it isn't and that's one large reason why mom and pops get creamed. they operate like it's 1952 and everyone is married with the father working and the mother staying at home with time to shop during the day.

Originally Posted by hcurtis

Friday is no doubt the biggest night out down there. Saturday can also be dead. Sunday is a total ghost town.

right, but as the OP said, I've seen myself, market sq ISNT dead. NOLA was packing them in and there were people milling about. if it's going to be sustainable, it will need more places. oftentimes you have to work more for less in the beginning of a project to get it off the ground. that's the nature of the beast. I have a friend who owns a distributor and he worked like a dog for no money when he first bought it, paid down debt, and now works less and makes pretty good money. from a larger perspective, it's important to the city because it a) creates a positive impression of the city and b) offers a place for people to spend their money other than their own neighborhood. c) might be a social benefit as downtowns often encourage mixing of people from different neighborhoods, suburbs, and visitors when they work.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by pman

umm, people on the internet posting on a message board.

Definitely something to keep in mind in all discussions here.