If Pittsburgh wasn't so artificially small (Indiana, Lake City: fit in, to live in, shop)

[Blackbeauty212]

Pittsburgh is is 22nd largest up from 24 or 25

[Copanut]

I just remember when the TV market was a destination point, now it's a stepping stone to somewhere else.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I understand, been here forever, the best we can hope for is maybe a head tax from all Allegheny County residents to help the City.

I'd say the way to do it would be a gradual countywide merger of services. Start with minor services like building inspection and stormwater management no one pays attention to. Then move onto things people realize are there, but won't get in an uproar about, like fire and refuse collection.

IMHO, the hardest things to consolidate will be schools, police, and city planning/zoning. The former two because the general public in the suburbs could be in an uproar, and the latter because it means that municipalities will have to break out of a zero-sum mentality whereby they compete for development (not that this is rampant in Allegheny County, but I think it's there nonetheless).

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'd say the way to do it would be a gradual countywide merger of services. Start with minor services like building inspection and stormwater management no one pays attention to. Then move onto things people realize are there, but won't get in an uproar about, like fire and refuse collection.

IMHO, the hardest things to consolidate will be schools, police, and city planning/zoning. The former two because the general public in the suburbs could be in an uproar, and the latter because it means that municipalities will have to break out of a zero-sum mentality whereby they compete for development (not that this is rampant in Allegheny County, but I think it's there nonetheless.

I agree, but consider this. This area used to be rich with jobs, it was easy for every twp/boro to have its own schools, police force, garbage men, you name it. Not so much now.

[Blackbeauty212]

Allegheny County has too much damn government... too many independent boroughs/townships/municipalities all struggling with their Budgets, but hell be damned if someone suggest consolidation on any level....

[Geeo]

The Pittsburgh television market jumped up one in the rankinigs this year, adding more than 10,000 TV households, which kind of goes with the recent turnaround in population. All this stuff is on the Neilsen website.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Allegheny County has too much damn government... too many independent boroughs/townships/municipalities all struggling with their Budgets, but hell be damned if someone suggest consolidation on any level....

and yet Pennsylvania doesn't rank particularly high in number of government employees so perhaps its not as big an issue as it's been made out to be. after all, how many counties socked away enough for pensions? how many stayed away from ill advised bond deals? how many remain restrained with debt issuance even when rates plummeted? the simple act of consolidation doesn't necessarily improve services. people say the legislature is too big, is it really or should they simply still be part time?

[BrianTH]

I agree the efficiency rationale for local consolidation can be overstated, although there are clear cases when the premise is true, such as the win-win deals my municipality has been able to make on certain services deals with the City.

But in any event, that doesn't address issues like hyperlocal property taxation causing negative feedback loops for distressed areas, or the incentives for running up "legacy" costs, which in turn are tied to incentives to sprawl, and so on.

[safak]

thats why you can't really look at city population.
houston is almost as many sq. miles as the entire allegheny county.
their suburbs are 'houston'.

in reality though, where are we from out in north huntingdon, wexford, cannonsburg? we are from pittsburgh. just stop by any sunday in the fall and check.

[GregHenry]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I understand, been here forever, the best we can hope for is maybe a head tax from all Allegheny County residents to help the City.

Not so sure about that. many residents of Allegheny don't even bother to go into the city, as it's far too difficult to get into there and too tough to move around, once there.

This weekend, for example, the city is shut off to residents from the East, because the Squirrel Hill Tunnel is closed, not like it ever moves too fast, in the best case.

The circuitous roads keep Pittsburgh metro walled into narrow and distinct areas.