what areas in PIttsburgh have little crime and are very clean with homes ranging i 100k to 200k (Philadelphia: cul-de-sac, middle-class)

[Terry Talbot]

I don't live in Cranberry it was an option but it would have been too far away.

[EveKendall]

I am baffled by posts I read here sometimes. I agree that Pittsburgh--like everywhere--has its negatives. However, I live in a safe, clean, fairly diverse neighborhood (I have neighbors from Ukraine, Isreal, Korea, and India) near good schools in the city. There is ample access to the bus system which my husband and I use to go to work in Oakland and downtown. I also paid less than $200,000. It can be done unless you feel you need 3,000 square feet of living space or want a huge back yard.

[Terry Talbot]

Originally Posted by groar

terry you are entitled to your opinion and you have some valid points but some of them are just inaccurate.

if you live outside the inner ring of suburbs, no there is not great public transportation. the system here certainly doesn't compare to places like nyc, which has a great subway system, buses and regional rail. but the buses and the t are just fine for getting around the city itself. we actually do have a subway here by the way, but it's kind of a joke - 10 or so blocks of the t that go underground downtown and were recently extended to the north shore.

secondly we do have an opera company, ballet company, symphony, many theaters, lots of artists and galleries, a thriving underground music scene. i've traveled extensively in the u.s. and know people from all over and i've never found another place with a cost of living comparable to pittsburgh that was as cosmopolitan as pittsburgh is.

i moved here from new york when i was 23, i'm not interested in sports, my social life generally revolves around music, community gardening and fiber arts, i'm an educated and cultured person who has been all over the world and i've been happy here for 11 years.

but i live (happily) in an area you probably wouldn't set foot in so that's a major issue we differ on. i've never really considered living in a suburban area - if i'm going to live somewhere where i have to drive to things i want to be way out there with several acres of land. certainly cities like chicago and new york are bigger and more cosmopolitan than pittsburgh but they are also every bit as "dangerous" as pittsburgh. i guess you are comparing suburbs to suburbs here and i do agree that those cities have more interesting standalone suburbs for the most part, although there are some nice ones around here as well.

so yeah, if you're going to move to the suburbs and be terrified of the entire city proper, you may not find pittsburgh to your liking. but if you can take the mean streets of bloomfield after dark, you may like it.

----
Hi,

Yes I was aware of the subway but thought it was kind of silly to mention because it was not all over the city.

I think I should have made myself clear in my first post I am aware of the art and cultural aspect of the city. Matter of fact I go to the ballet and theater very often. What I meant is that it does not really compare to other cities! However I should have noted is that the art and cultural scene as I have experienced is not stuck up as other cities.

I knew about the many artist here as a matter of fact I have purchased some very nice art from local artist. But to be fair I don't know too much about any underground music scene. And I am not really interested.

I have also traveled all over the country and lived in many places and I agree Pittsburgh is VERY affordable. I'm glad that you have been happy here for 11 years but I want to be honest that it isn't for everyone.

You say you live in an area I would not set foot in...I actually live in a new development in the burbs and love it here but often go outside of the area to soak up atmosphere. I have probably visited your area many times. Matter of fact many of my artist friends probably live in your area. I live in the burbs for the schools.

I honestly found Pittsburgh much safer than Chicago or NY. But that's my perception. I am not terrified of the inner city... you all here are assuming I am something I am not!

But thanks for your nice post and for targeting my message and not the messenger like some here.

Peace!

[Terry Talbot]

Originally Posted by EveKendall

I am baffled by posts I read here sometimes. I agree that Pittsburgh--like everywhere--has its negatives. However, I live in a safe, clean, fairly diverse neighborhood (I have neighbors from Ukraine, Isreal, Korea, and India) near good schools in the city. There is ample access to the bus system which my husband and I use to go to work in Oakland and downtown. I also paid less than $200,000. It can be done unless you feel you need 3,000 square feet of living space or want a huge back yard.

----


I would love to know more about your area. We bought in a nice area but neighbors are not diverse or friendly and there is not much to see or do. When we moved here we asked the realtor how diverse the area was and was told it was very diverse. Not true.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Outofthematrix

Single family home in the suburbs....yes I know most suburbs have white people lol but some do have working class blacks.....I got nothing against anyone I'm just asking....most of all a quite peaceful non violent pace with many things near by...example..parks,malls,supermarkets.

Those are a dime a dozen, and I don't know the suburbs well, so I'll leave that to someone else.

I will say, however, that while I think Pittsburgh offers much better city living than Philadelphia, I don't think Pittsburgh suburbs in particular are better than Philly suburbs. Not that it's terrible mind you - it's a whole lot cheaper out here of course, but it's also less cosmopolitan in most places, and they're about the same when it comes to issues like safety. Thus I think the suburbs are pretty evenly matched - unless you're someone who likes the trappings of Northeast Corridor wealth, in which case, I think you'll be let down.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- You have to live away from the city in the suburbs to get away from crime ( but that's most cities)

This is dead wrong. There are a lot of neighborhoods in the city with very low crime rates. Just to list a few, there's Brookline, Lincoln Place, New Homestead, North Oakland, Oakwood, Point Breese, Squirrel Hill, and Summer Hill.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- You have to live in suburbs to find great schools for your kids ( again that is most cities)

Again, not true. The schools in the Alderdice feeder pattern, when you take into account demographics (take into account the have a significant number black students and only compare white students test scores) are as good as an above-average suburban school district. Many of the magnets equal the best suburban districts in the county when viewed the same way. City schools are "bad" because more black kids and poor kids go to them than in the suburbs. That is all.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- You have to live in burbs to find GREAT, affordable and nice homes.

Absolutely untrue. Well, I suppose it's a matter of taste, but if you like nice old houses, the city surely has the bulk of them. If you like cookie-cutter subdivisions on large lots, of course you'll prefer the suburbs anywhere.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- The city and especially the suburbs lacks diversity.

No argument

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- The city is not cosmopolitan like L.A., N.Y., Chicago or The D.C. Metro Area.

No argument again, although this is essentially a repeat of your last complaint.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- People are friendly up to a point. Most of the people in the Pittsburgh and suburbs are very click-ish and most have lived in these areas forever. So they are not very outgoing in the way of welcoming new comers.

I'm from New England originally, and I found people here unusually outgoing, as my own experience growing up was it's bad manners to speak to someone you don't know. Philly is a city well-known for having an antisocial and rude local culture, so I don't see how it wouldn't be a step up for the OP.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- People here are very much into there sports teams which is fantastic but they really don't have much else going on here. There is a small cultural following here with theater and such but it is very small.

It can be alienating here to not like sports, it's true. A wide array of people seem to like sports here who never would elsewhere (most women, a lot of punks and other subculture people, etc). That said, I've done alright. And when I was younger and still went to events, I thought there was a really active local music scene.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- There isn't much to do here if you are not a super sports fan. Because after visiting all of the museums, the zoo etc., and such there is really nothing to do but eat. There are a lot of overweight people here and they do not seem to mind being over weight.

You're being repetitive again. Philly is a fatter city than Pittsburgh from hat I remember regardless. Personally I think it's a great city for biking (recent fatal accidents aside) and I really enjoy just wandering around many neighborhoods when I'm not chasing my three-year-old daughter around.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- The summer weather is fine not too bad as far as heat goes, but it's usually overcast or cloudy, and not many people venture out of there homes in the burbs. The streets are quiet and dull!!!

The streets are quiet and dull everywhere in the suburbs. It's why people go to malls, or movie theaters, or the city.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- There is no underground subway system. Buses do run in some areas but that is very limited.

As others said, mass transit is fine in the city proper. It does suck to outlying regions, but this was cut in part because the people out those ways didn't use mass transit much anymore to get into the city regardless.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

- There are not many sidewalks in the burbs, making cycling or just walking on the side of the road risky behavior

There's plenty of sidewalks in old-line suburbs like Edgewood, Oakmont, and Sewickley.

Oh, and it's actually illegal to bike on the sidewalk anyway, so it shouldn't dissuade cyclists.

[PB&J O'Rourke]

Of course you don't find many people out and about in the suburbs - what good is wandering around your neighborhood when there's a great city like Pittsburgh right here?

[Terry Talbot]

Wow you really dissected my post to defend your city. Kudo's to you, seriously!!!!

Why in your opinion (because you appear to have so many opinions) are the city schools bad because the *black kids* go to them? That's an interesting remark.

Also we like our large, cookie cutter, new construction home. It's fabulous!! And we did not want to live in a home 30 years or more old. Also when we found out we were going to move we had about two weeks to find a home. And did not have enough time to look at homes in Brookline, Lincoln Place, New Homestead, North Oakland, Oakwood, Point Breese, Squirrel Hill, and Summer Hill and other places that you might have mentioned. Besides we did not know much about those areas, as we listened to our realtor after we told him our needs.

I suppose we should have spoken to you (since you have a vast amount of knowledge on this subject), before we moved to this city. I apologize for, in your opinion being repetitive.

Cycling in my area is not illegal, and is done often. I don't know much about Edgewood, or Oakmont. Sewickley is very nice and yes there are sidewalks there I was so happy and surprised when I stumbled upon it for the first time. But like I said, Oh Dear!! I'm being repetitive again, but I like my home. I just don't care for other things in the area.
In many cities were I lived lived in the suburbs bus lines were plentiful!

To be completely honest I have never visited Philly except for driving through, but I wanted to give my opinion on living in Pittsburgh.

It seems I hit on some nerves because people are coming out of the wood work to defend this city, (otherwise who cares and why are you on this forum) You already live here, you don't need to be convinced it's fantastic.

I'm here because I wanted to read what others thought of another city that we are thinking of relocating to, and decided to see what people thought of Pittsburgh. Truth is I do not care for the city, but I'm happy for you that you love it.

WOW!!! Go Pittsburgh!! Go Steelers!!! Go Penguins!!! Go Pirates!!!!!

Thanks for your post.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

Why in your opinion (because you appear to have so many opinions) are the city schools bad because the *black kids* go to them? That's an interesting remark.

PSSA annually test the scores of all public school children at the elementary, middle school, and high school level. These tests are generally used in order to determine "school quality." They break down the test scores by race, and as is the case nationally, there tends to be a black-white test score gap. I'm not sure what the cause is - I'm not saying its genetic, but it exists, and it's silly to ignore it.

If you look at just how the white students do in Pittsburgh city schools, the answer is - not any differently than in the suburbs. White kids who go to school in the Lower East End and the magnets score as good as white kids in the wealthy suburbs. White kids who go to the neighborhood schools in poorer parts of the city score pretty similarly to lower-middle class white districts like Baldwin-Whitehall or Keystone Oaks.

For black students it's harder to say. Black kids do badly in the overwhelmingly black neighborhood city schools. They tend to do far better in the magnet schools however. Unfortunately, most suburban schools have so few black students in any one grade that the PSSA doesn't report black test score results, as it wouldn't be a statistically significant sample. Districts like Upper Saint Clair, North Hills, and Fox Chapel Area really do only have a handful of black students. So we can't say if the few black kids who live out there get a better education in those school districts than in the City of Pittsburgh magnets.

But the point is, if you take two high schools, one of which is 95% white and 5% black, and one of which is 55% white and 45% black, even if the white students score identically, the black population, along with the national black/white test score gap, will make the latter look like a much worse school.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

Also we like our large, cookie cutter, new construction home. It's fabulous!! And we did not want to live in a home 30 years or more old.

Suit yourself. I love my 1890 rowhouse.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

Also when we found out we were going to move we had about two weeks to find a home. And did not have enough time to look at homes in Brookline, Lincoln Place, New Homestead, North Oakland, Oakwood, Point Breese, Squirrel Hill, and Summer Hill and other places that you might have mentioned. Besides we did not know much about those areas, as we listened to our realtor after we told him our needs.

It sounds like you should have rented for a year before buying, as is often suggested to newcomers in this forum.

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

To be completely honest I have never visited Philly except for driving through, but I wanted to give my opinion on living in Pittsburgh.

Understandable. Since the OP is coming from Philly, I'm guessing he has some very...low expectations...on what a city has to offer. I never lived in Philly myself, although my family is from there. I do like the city, but I think it's fair to say in most ways it's inferior to Pittsburgh (more expensive, much more crime, much less friendly, etc).

Originally Posted by Terry Talbot

I'm here because I wanted to read what others thought of another city that we are thinking of relocating to, and decided to see what people thought of Pittsburgh. Truth is I do not care for the city, but I'm happy for you that you love it.

As I said, if you're a suburb person, I don't think Pittsburgh is great except in terms of the prices. You can get suburban tract housing anywhere. Where I think Pittsburgh shines is it offers an urban experience with low cost and a high level of safety compared to most cities. Coming from Connecticut, it was unthinkable what I paid to buy a house in a safe, gentrifying area of the city.

[Tirade]

Are we really doing the "Pittsburgh lacks diversity" argument again?

When I lived in Sq. Hill, I couldn't walk to the grocery store without hearing at least five different languages. My apartment had immigrants from Russia, India, and China, and I lived in the heart of an Orthodox Jewish community where menorahs were far more common in December than Christmas lights. Within walking distance was an LGBT community center, a Korean market, and a Kosher market. Within a ten minute drive, I could access eight different ethnic markets. Whenever I visit the city's farmer's markets, I always hear Italian (Bloomfield market) or Ukrainian (South Side market).

The diversity is there. You just need to adjust your definition of it to include things other than "lots of brown people."

Oh BTW, who else has noticed that complaints here about "lack of diversity" always come from people living in the suburbs? It's like they want to see diversity on their way to Whole Foods, but refuse to actually live and immerse themselves in a diverse neighborhood.