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The reason that the East End is "hot" is that a significant chunk of Pittsburgh's job growth is in occupations that tend to be filled by people who value "restaurants/nightlife, proximity to the "eds and meds", and the Whole Foods/Trader Joe's stores." (The biggest other chunk of local job growth, in the oil and gas industry, tends to occur outside of Pittsburgh and to be filled by people who value other things).
There's also the "birds of a feather, flock together" perk: when I lived in Bloomfield, I was one of the only people on my street who had graduated from college. Now, in Highland Park, I'm one of the only people on my street who doesn't teach college. People who move here to work in jobs that involve thinking tend to want to live near other people who are like them - which means they want to live in the East End.
I don't live in Brighton Heights, but I have some relatives who do and some friends who have. They are uniformly: i) huge fans of the neighborhood, including what you get for the housing prices that you pay; and ii) people who don't lose any sleep whatsoever over access to the restaurants and grocery stores in the East End. I'm sure you would also be a huge fan of the neighborhood. Like robrobrob, I am less sure that you wouldn't lose sleep over access to the East End.
I currently love the civic pride and community focus that people here in Polish Hill possess. I've simply been priced out of it. If I was in the position to buy in 2009 or 2010, when I was only paying $550/month in rent, then I wish I had bought here immediately. Now I can't. Unlike some of the other "group think" parts of the East End where everyone drives a Prius and power-walks their golden retrievers while listening to Enya I find there's a good variety of folks here. We still have the talented artists, tattooed punks, and quirky goths who helped to initially bring about this neighborhood's renaissance in the mid-to-late-2000s. We have the "Shadyside types" who are priced out of Shadyside but still want to play yuppie. We have a decent LGBT community. We have auto mechanics and college professors. We have restaurateurs and bartenders. We have middle-managers (like moi), executives (like my neighbor), and busboys. We're still largely white with a few African-Americans tossed into the mix, but other than the lack of racial diversity I do value the socioeconomic diversity here. It feels like our neighborhood is "cozy" and offers something for everyone, whether you have an MBA or a G.E.D. and whether you drive a Jaguar sedan or a Dodge Shadow. All of these types can be seen patronizing our neighborhood coffeeshop. Brighton Heights sounds like it's a similar great cross-section of socioeconomic backgrounds, whereas I feel like Highland Park, Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, etc. are more uniform---middle-aged upper-middle-class post-Doctoral fellows, "meds and eds" employees, executives, lawyers, etc. with children attending magnet schools or charter schools. That's fine, but it's not our "scene". I feel like even Regent Square is trending this way, even though it had been holding out in terms of a greater array of socioeconomic diversity for quite some time.
Brighton Heights and Troy Hill would be ideal neighborhoods for us if they offer us this "melting pot" ambiance while still being a fraction of the price of Polish Hill. I like living on a street right now where we feel "middle-class" and "middle-of-the-road". I'm happiest when I feel like I belong. I feel like we're neither too rich nor too poor to live on our block. We're neither too educated nor too uneducated. We're neither too gainfully-employed nor too underemployed. I think Brighton Heights and Troy Hill would offer similar living options.
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Originally Posted by steindle
I've talked to PennDOT, Darlene Harris, and the Port Authority about this. They've all told me it's reopening. There were plenty of naysayers, but that was just classic Chicken Little-ing. If nothing else, it seems insane that they would build probably millions of dollars in infrastructure around it (connecting to 31st St. Bridge and going OVER 28), if it wasn't going to open back up.
Great news, and this certainly would ratchet Troy Hill up to the top of our list.
<COMMENCE OFF-TOPIC RANT> I was born working-class in an impoverished area, and I'm indeed defensive about it because in today's culture it's "taboo" to be "working-class", especially in the East End, where most of my contemporaries are at least partially and willingly sponging off their parents' assets---sort of like "Williamsburg Trust Fund Hipster: Lite", if you will. Yes, they have a B.A. degree, but they're playing with Smartphones, eating at Paris 66, driving $25,000 vehicles, vacationing abroad, paying for health club memberships, drinking every Friday night at 5801 or Harris Grill, and living in $1,200/month apartments while making $30,000-$40,000 salaries. Something isn't adding up if they're somehow NOT mooching, and as a future parent who'd want my own children to earn everything on their own so they could learn a strong work ethic this alarms me. This city shouldn't have so many 25-year-olds trying to emulate the Great Gatsby on what should be a Family Dollar budget.
I'm sort of stuck in the middle because I don't really fit in as either a "yinzer" with their parking chairs, racially-insensitive jokes, Pabst Blue Ribbon, and Steelers pajama pants in public OR a "typical" East Ender with their yoga/latte/BMW/vegan/NPR/Twitter/poodle orientation. I do yearn to fit into one group or the other, but, alas, I never will. I'm too poor and self-sufficient financially to ever be the latter, and the former annoys me to the core with their lack of social awareness (i.e. the school van driver who blares his horn several times in front of my bedroom window every morning at 7:25 AM). I've just found so many of these social extremes since living here. Aren't there polite, educated, and well-polished yinzers or humble and non-flashy East End 20-somethings to be found? Am I just yearning for the "Leave it to Beaver" era that no longer exists ANYWHERE? <END OFF-TOPIC RANT>
I can relate to a certain degree. While I didn't grow up working class, both my parents did, and were the first people in their families to go to college. As my parents actually achieved some financial success, their disgust with the entitled, none-to-bright people they rubbed shoulders with in the business world increased. I was raised to believe rich people were *******s and you shouldn't trust them. To this day, being in a big house, a fancy car, or being served food at a catered party makes me deeply uncomfortable. At the same time, I don't really have anything in common with my working-class extended family anymore. I don't speak that language. I have disgust at upper-middle class lifestyles, but befuddlement at working-class culture.
Regardless, I've come to the conclusion that while community is a great thing, belonging just isn't something that will ever happen for me, and that's okay. I got my family, I have friends, and I got myself.
I can relate to a certain degree. While I didn't grow up working class, both my parents did, and were the first people in their families to go to college. As my parents actually achieved some financial success, their disgust with the entitled, none-to-bright people they rubbed shoulders with in the business world increased. I was raised to believe rich people were *******s and you shouldn't trust them. To this day, being in a big house, a fancy car, or being served food at a catered party makes me deeply uncomfortable. At the same time, I don't really have anything in common with my working-class extended family anymore. I don't speak that language. I have disgust at upper-middle class lifestyles, but befuddlement at working-class culture.
Regardless, I've come to the conclusion that while community is a great thing, belonging just isn't something that will ever happen for me, and that's okay. I got my family, I have friends, and I got myself.
Once again off-topic (sorry, Yac), but you just nailed my inner psyche to a "T". I won't even go to a full-service gas station because I feel like I'm an elitist if I make someone else pump my gas for me, even though I drive a Honda---not a Porsche. My mom doesn't have a four-year degree and is an unskilled laborer. My father was the first in his family to obtain a Bachelor's Degree, and his work ethic is unbelievable. When he was laid off in 2007 as an IT manager he worked two jobs---one as a convenience store clerk and one as a stock clerk at a grocery store---to make ends meet. He didn't cry and whine for a handout the way so many do today when laid off. I work 70 hours per week and won't take a dime from my parents. If I screw up and charge too much on a credit card I pick up an extra shift and work hard to pay it off. I don't default on my credit card, whine for a student loan bailout, or ask "What can the Government do for me?" I'm working hard now to buy my first house 100% on my own. Many of my friends are buying homes with their parents fronting their down payment money. Not me.
I share your sentiment---I have nothing in common, really, with most in the traditional "working-class", but I also have disdain at the conspicuous consumption I frequently observe from upper-middle-class folks. I try to socialize and hang out with working-class stiff types, but I never feel like I belong since I don't smoke, swear, drink, or like football. I try to socialize with fellow "educated and worldly East End twenty-somethings" and feel like an elitist duchebag if I do as they say sip mixed drinks and say buzz-words like "Darfur" without knowing anything about them. I end up just working, and working, and working and socializing very little. I'm a nice person, but I feel like I belong living in the 1950s. I'm certainly not racist, but I certainly would love to live the type of lifestyle where people knew the value of a dollar, cared about their neighbors as themselves, had respect for their elders, and weren't so obsessed with keeping up with the Jones's. Today it's all about more, more, more in this country, and it feels like I don't belong.
Getting back on-topic, this is why I think I'd like a Polish Hill-like neighborhood somewhere in the city---just with a more attainable price tag. Brighton Heights and Troy Hill seem like they'd suit the bill.
<COMMENCE OFF-TOPIC RANT> I was born working-class in an impoverished area, and I'm indeed defensive about it because in today's culture it's "taboo" to be "working-class", especially in the East End, where most of my contemporaries are at least partially and willingly sponging off their parents' assets---sort of like "Williamsburg Trust Fund Hipster: Lite", if you will. Yes, they have a B.A. degree, but they're playing with Smartphones, eating at Paris 66, driving $25,000 vehicles, vacationing abroad, paying for health club memberships, drinking every Friday night at 5801 or Harris Grill, and living in $1,200/month apartments while making $30,000-$40,000 salaries. Something isn't adding up if they're somehow NOT mooching, and as a future parent who'd want my own children to earn everything on their own so they could learn a strong work ethic this alarms me. This city shouldn't have so many 25-year-olds trying to emulate the Great Gatsby on what should be a Family Dollar budget.
I'm sort of stuck in the middle because I don't really fit in as either a "yinzer" with their parking chairs, racially-insensitive jokes, Pabst Blue Ribbon, and Steelers pajama pants in public OR a "typical" East Ender with their yoga/latte/BMW/vegan/NPR/Twitter/poodle orientation. I do yearn to fit into one group or the other, but, alas, I never will. I'm too poor and self-sufficient financially to ever be the latter, and the former annoys me to the core with their lack of social awareness (i.e. the school van driver who blares his horn several times in front of my bedroom window every morning at 7:25 AM). I've just found so many of these social extremes since living here. Aren't there polite, educated, and well-polished yinzers or humble and non-flashy East End 20-somethings to be found? Am I just yearning for the "Leave it to Beaver" era that no longer exists ANYWHERE? <END OFF-TOPIC RANT>
Very interesting....I was born working class but play with my smartphone (it is 2013 isnt it), eat at Paris 66, drive a $25,000+ car, vacation abroad, and pay health club memberships...I don't drink every Friday night by choice (but could if I wanted to)....I also use a parking chair, drink PBR, wouldn't think twice about honking my horn at 7:30 in the morning on a weekday, do yoga, drink lattes, only listen to NPR, and am active on Twitter...
I don't know if that makes me a well-polished yinzer or what, but I live in Brookline. Maybe that is what Brookline is becoming...the home of the well-polished yinzers.
I don't know if that makes me a well-polished yinzer or what, but I live in Brookline. Maybe that is what Brookline is becoming...the nome of the well-polished yinzers.
^ LOL! Well, I DID say that Brookline Boulevard was destined to become the "Walnut Street of the South Hills" someday.
Am I just yearning for the "Leave it to Beaver" era that no longer exists ANYWHERE?
<OFF TOPIC COMMENT> It never existed. Reality is always more complicated and grimier than hindsight allows. </OFF TOPIC COMMENT>
With regard to missing the East End...we don't at all. By way of background, when I went to CMU and later Pitt, my wife and I did the East End thing, living in Oakland and Shadyside, rarely venturing out of those neighborhoods (East Liberty wasn't exactly a destination then). Really enjoyed it, especially as I grew more comfortable with Pittsburgh not being NYC. Eventually spent our late 20s/ early 30s in the Southside because we wanted to change it up from the East End...felt we had already done it.
When it came time to buy a house we weren't necessarily priced out of the East End or the Southside but, after looking around, I couldn't reconcile purchasing there when I could get so much more house on the Northside. The odd thing is neither one of was working in town at the time we bought our house, now we both are. Initially my wife was a little skeptical, now I think she'd stab me if I tried to get her to move.
I think, like every time you move, at first (if possible) you find yourself returning to you old neighborhood to go to familiar places and see neighborhood friends. Then, as new places and friends take their place over time, the trips become less and less frequent. Pretty soon you rarely go over there unless there's a specific reason to do so. Honestly, it's been 3 months since I was on the Southside and probably haven't been in the East End (other than CMU) in a year. Personally, the rise of downtown (bars, restaurants, etc.) has eliminated most of the pressing reasons to go east and deal with the traffic.
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I's like to add; never trust somebody living in Squirrel Hill to give you advice on a North Side neighborhood. BH is safe to go jogging at night, I see young women doing it presently. I'd say stay away from Shadeland (not BH anyhow) and the lower areas closer to Woods Run but the rest of the BH hood is perfectly safe. On living in the East End vs North Side; I do not miss the East End. I have nostalgia for my 20's when I lived in various EE hoods for 10 years but I don't miss the traffic, cramped quarters or the transient renters that seem to make up most of the population in those neighborhoods. I miss Frick Park and D's.
Very interesting....I was born working class but play with my smartphone (it is 2013 isnt it), eat at Paris 66, drive a $25,000+ car, vacation abroad, and pay health club memberships...I don't drink every Friday night by choice (but could if I wanted to)....I also use a parking chair, drink PBR, wouldn't think twice about honking my horn at 7:30 in the morning on a weekday, do yoga, drink lattes, only listen to NPR, and am active on Twitter...
I don't know if that makes me a well-polished yinzer or what, but I live in Brookline. Maybe that is what Brookline is becoming...the home of the well-polished yinzers.
Interestingly, I have a similar background and can relate to both the pros (having social facility in both demographic camps) and cons (sometimes feeling alien in either environment). Neither of my parents holds a college degree, I grew up in kind of the picture of a working class neighborhood, had friends who didn't have any food in their refrigerators, grew up too fast in some respects, was a little hoodlum, etc.... Then I went to hoity-toity liberal arts college and law school and became friends with a bunch of educated Manhattanites and children of the elite.
I try to combine these influences to make me a more empathetic person (because I genuinely understand / have lived the problems that result from poverty, have seen the ravages of de facto segregation, etc.) who is able to act on that understanding in ways that affect palpable, and large-scale change (through legislation, fundraising, etc.).
I have seen a number of friends from the old 'hood who have achieved independence and moderate success, and have as a result come to resent our mutual friends who haven't. The way they describe those who stayed in our old neighborhood is similar to how you describe "yinzers." I take a different tack and simply consider myself lucky for having stable familial support and, maybe to some extent, picking a good number in the smarts lottery, which ended up being my ticket to a different life. Having different, and more, opportunities than many of my peers is essentially what made all the difference between drug-dealing and law-peddling for me.
In sum: I honestly think it's a misguided waste of energy to look down on others, when it would be far more productive for public safety, economic output, and societal happiness generally if we spent that same energy raising people up -- through education, rehabilitation, and encouragement. How often has belittling or stereotyping inspired you to improve, or change, yourself? The same is true of anyone, regardless of class or race.
Thanks to all that replied. I, too, have a friend in Squirrel Hill that I asked about BH as I'm movingto Pbgh for work and haven't a clue about the city. She said it's transitional and not to go running after dark. This broke my heart because there are some turn-of-the-century homes I would be interested in buying should the job work out. Being a small female with no husband, safety is the highest priority on my list. It's nice to know that I might be able to actually get the house I'm already in a relationship with in my mind.
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Originally Posted by AntiAgingNP
That's good to hear. No matter where I buy I plan on having a security system, big dog, and a gun (thankfully PA is more gun friendly)
In a literal sense Brighton Heights is transitional, but not in the real estate codeword sense. There's definitely some investment in the neighborhood. I'm seeing lots of contractors working on homes and rented dumpsters parked in front of homes being renovated. There are even some more disposable income type businesses opening up, like the indoor cycling gym and the dance studio. I've even heard talk of PPS opening up a second Montessori school in the area. So the neighborhood is going through positive changes, but it's not like it's a full blown ghetto-to-chic gentrification, since it wasn't ghetto to begin with.
I do see solo female joggers in the neighborhood, but not at night. If you want to run at night, I would definitely get a blinky armband or reflective vest or something so that cars can see you. And BornSteeler is correct that BH has some uneven sidewalks here and there. I have seen women walking dogs both at night and during the day, so maybe you can take your dog jogging?
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Originally Posted by BornSteeler
I ended up buying my home in Brighton Heights, and I'm super happy with the neighborhood. We got more space and a nicer house that we could have gotten in the prime East End neighborhoods at this price, it provides preferable commute options for our situation, and we're really happy here.
Congratulations! It's always nice to hear an update.
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Originally Posted by Uptown kid
BH south of Davis Ave, may have a few incidents every year, but overall the neighborhood including the southern section is very nice.
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Originally Posted by BornSteeler
As others have noted, it's a big neighborhood. I would support the rule of thumb that houses are better kept north of Davis
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Originally Posted by norcider
I'd say stay away from Shadeland (not BH anyhow) and the lower areas closer to Woods Run but the rest of the BH hood is perfectly safe.
I agree that there is a difference between north and south of Davis, but I don't think it's a huge one with regard to safety. It's not like telling someone to live south of Penn in Friendship or south of the busway in N. Point Breeze. What blight there is in BH is indeed concentrated south of Davis, but even then it's not an overwhelming amount of blight -- it just looks worse than the mostly manicured northern portion of the neighborhood. Homes also tend to be older and closer together (or even attached) south of Davis, along with there being more hills. I don't think people in the neighborhood make the distinction; it's seems to me to be similar to the "north/south of Forbes" distinction in Squirrel Hill -- useful for real estate maybe, but not much else.
Also, Shadeland from Orchlee to Harbison is in Brighton Heights. That's actually my favorite street of the neighborhood; it's home to some really awesome homes (check out this one for sale right now). I see no reason to warn people away from it?
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Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
I have just been torn wondering if I'll always have "East End Envy" if I buy a house in Troy Hill, Brighton Heights, or Observatory Hill.
Don't you already have East End Envy in a sense? Sorry for the snark, but it seems to me that you are pretty consistently frustrated by your current living situation and the current cost of the East End.
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Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
Other than the restaurants/nightlife, proximity to the "eds and meds", and the Whole Foods/Trader Joe's stores, are there any perks fellow priced-out East Enders now living on the North Side truly miss? I love the National Aviary, and being closer would be a perk to me. Ditto Rivers Casino and the Ross Park Mall. We like Max's Allegheny Tavern, and the occasional visit to Taco Bell in Allegheny West isn't out of the question.
Perhaps I'm not seeing this clearly, but I've lived here almost exactly three years, and other than those three aforementioned convenience perks I don't see why else the East End is really "hot".
This doesn't apply to Polish Hill I guess; but one thing I do miss here in BH is walkable parks. When I lived in Oakland, Bloomfield, and the War Streets it was always a short 5 minute or less walk to go hang out in the park for a bit. BH has some parks, but they are more oriented towards playgrounds and sports fields. Riverview Park is nigh inaccessible on foot since the demolition of the Davis Ave Bridge (which incidentally, Darlene Harris did tell me rebuilding it is in the works). Of course I have a yard and porch now, so that helps with my "park envy."
I never lived in the East End when Target was there, but I imagine you might miss that as well. The North Side only has drug stores and discount dollar stores. The Big Lots in McKees Rocks, K-Mart in Westview, and downtown stores are easy enough to get too, though.
You drive when you go out to eat now anyway right? Unless you're trying to go during rush hour, it shouldn't be much of a difference to go from the north side to the east end to eat. I also suspect that you might move your "dining map" to recenter it wherever you move to. There's plenty of options in the North Side, downtown, McKees Rocks, and Bellevue.
Do you go to bars much? The bar scene here is definitely different than in the East End.
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Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
I also don't want to buy a house in Brighton Heights and then regret it, though. Should we consider renting in Brighton Heights for a year prior to buying?
Hmmm, I'm not sure. I feel a big part of the benefit of living in Brighton Heights is the home ownership itself. If you were to try this, I doubt it would take a year for you to make a decision, so a month-to-month lease would be ideal. Especially when you get around to home shopping, since you never know how long it will take to find the right place and close on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
Brighton Heights and Troy Hill would be ideal neighborhoods for us if they offer us this "melting pot" ambiance while still being a fraction of the price of Polish Hill. I like living on a street right now where we feel "middle-class" and "middle-of-the-road". I'm happiest when I feel like I belong. I feel like we're neither too rich nor too poor to live on our block. We're neither too educated nor too uneducated. We're neither too gainfully-employed nor too underemployed. I think Brighton Heights and Troy Hill would offer similar living options.
I would agree with your assessment.
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