Admission to Pittsburgh's charters and magnets becomes more difficult... (Lawrenceville: day care, lawyers)

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Read all about it:

This is far more interesting than the article, which concentrates on Frick ECS (which continues to grow in popularity despite mediocre results).

Seems possibly unfair. Dunno much about them, but according to schooldigger.com, their test score results are above the state average on various PSSA types and at various grades. Many of their scores are decent. To know why it's popular, one would have to compare it directly to the schools that the students would have otherwise had to go to.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

It looks like what you did is calculated the probability of getting into each school from the numbers in the table (.43662, .309783, .52381) and added them up. That isn't correct as joint probabilities are multiplicative, not additive. The joint probability you want is the probability of not getting into all three schools, so: (1-.43662)*(1-.309783)*(1-.52381) = .185169

Which is to say that you have an 81.5% chance of getting into at least one of those three schools.

(The actual probability is slightly higher because some number of people will win two or more lotteries, but only take one slot. That effectively lowers the number of applicants, but I can't really estimate by how much. Also, some people could win and not take the slot for whatever reason.)

Sorry, math isn't my strong point...I'd probably only score proficient on the PSSA math exam. Using the same formula, you'd have a 45.9% chance of getting if you applied to the most competitive East End magnets.

Still, it does fit with my general perception that if you're smart about which schools you apply to, your chances are better than even to get into a decent magnet. Not certain, but pretty good. For now anyway.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

Seems possibly unfair. Dunno much about them, but according to schooldigger.com, their test score results are above the state average on various PSSA types and at various grades. Many of their scores are decent. To know why it's popular, one would have to compare it directly to the schools that the students would have otherwise had to go to.

The article itself notes they've been put on the "warning" list in terms of not making their target in terms of AYP.

Regardless, I'm not saying they are a bad school. But they don't appear to be better than the East End magnets, and even white students at Colfax and Minedao score better overall. I think it's kind of a shame that when the local schools have perfectly okay test scores for white students (but happen to have 40%-60% black enrollment) white people start heading for the exits.

[sealie]

I think your strategy of considering the German magnet is solid. Fewer kids are taking German, generally, it's not like what it was a generation ago when people still learned it to stay in touch with their cousins. Some colleges are even considering dropping the major. It's sad, really. Guess three separate genders plus the declension rules are too much for people.
I see the kids outside every once in a while on one of their field trips to Frick Park. They seem happy and behave well and seem engaged, but I don't know anything about the educational methods. I wouldn't be surprised if the experiential education or whatever it's called doesn't lead to high test scores, but I expect they learn a lot. I don't know anything about it though.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The article itself notes they've been put on the "warning" list in terms of not making their target in terms of AYP.

Well, I suppose you've found my bias in terms of how much importance I place on that, for varying reasons. But yes. I just posted an article yesterday in the Penn Hills charter school thread about how they ended their association with a management company that oversees a lot of schools (this new article touches on it briefly), and I think there's more to the story there.

Regardless, I'm not saying they are a bad school. But they don't appear to be better than the East End magnets, and even white students at Colfax and Minedao score better overall. I think it's kind of a shame that when the local schools have perfectly okay test scores for white students (but happen to have 40%-60% black enrollment) white people start heading for the exits.

No disagreement there. Though in regards to the last sentence, many of the white people would leave even if test scores were 100% for white students, just because they don't want their kids around black kids.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

No disagreement there. Though in regards to the last sentence, many of the white people would leave even if test scores were 100% for white students, just because they don't want their kids around black kids.

True, but everyone has their own thresholds. The explicit racists get worried as soon as a single black kid is enrolled in their child's school. Then as black enrollment increases, more and more people who aren't racist (except maybe subconsciously) start thinking "something must be wrong with this school, why else is everyone else I know leaving." The problem is that each rise in black enrollment causes the next group of people to hit their discomfort level and head for the exits. This used to also be true for neighborhoods, but while residential segregation is lessening throughout the country, I don't see any evidence it is for schooling, except in cases like Pittsburgh's magnets where policy purposefully mixes students, but ensures that only those parents who volunteer take part.

[Sideblinded]

It isn't about test scores. It is about sending your child to the school where they would feel the safest. Disipline at PPS is poorly handled and parents who send their kids there know it.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Sideblinded

It isn't about test scores. It is about sending your child to the school where they would feel the safest. Disipline at PPS is poorly handled and parents who send their kids there know it.

Generally speaking, you don't need to worry about safety on the elementary level. Yes, there are some horror stories, but few K-5 kids are doing drugs, getting raped, involved in shootings, or even getting into physical altercations. There is zero reason to be concerned about this until the middle school level.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by sealie

Why do you say that ECS is delivering mediocre results? Are you basing that on test scores or collegiate achievement or something else?

The reality of ECS's standing based upon PSSA test scores (the only real standard used in the state of Pennsylvania) suggests that this charter is doing even worse than mediocre. The school is on the state's "warning" list for failing to make adequate yearly progress from 2012. In the public school system, this level of achievement (or lack thereof) raises all types of red flags. The pressure will be on the administration of ECS this year, as these low scores could eventually lead to a revocation/funding of their charter.

Pennsylvania charter school test results sag - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

Seems possibly unfair. Dunno much about them, but according to schooldigger.com, their test score results are above the state average on various PSSA types and at various grades. Many of their scores are decent. To know why it's popular, one would have to compare it directly to the schools that the students would have otherwise had to go to.

A number of school districts across Pa. filed a complaint with the Pa. Department of Education regarding the the very favorable interpretation of test score results that was being given to the charter schools only. In other words, our local school districts were dissatisfied with the fact that the standard that public schools were required to sustain was not being applied equally to the charter schools. The PDE concurred, and the standard for both public schools and the charter schools is now the same. Beginning in January 2013, the results were reported to reflect this change. As a result of this universal standard for all types of school choices, too many charter schools performed poorly. What you are seeing on sites, such as schooldigger and/or the individual charter school websites, do not yet reflect this change.

Is the education received in the charter schools better than the public schools?..... Based upon the last test results, probably not. There may be some exceptions, but if the test results are to be believed, the charter school concept seems to sell innovation and achievement .... but saying and achieving are very distinctly different.