2013 Crime Map of Residential East Liberty (from a non resident) (Highland Park: for sale, apartments)

[Uptown kid]

2013 Crime Map of Residential East Liberty (from a non resident):
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...00564,0.013078
The map here depicts the currently: safe, livable, somewhat sketchy, and rough parts of East Liberty. *I am open to changing, relabeling and/or re-categorizing these highlighted areas, as well as discussion/debate about the labeling. Even though I don't live in East Lib, I frequent this area and know a substantial bit of what's going down. Yet I'm guessing selltheburgh will chime in with his expertise...
-We all know East Liberty is getting better, but I wanna stress that as of right now most of the neighborhood is not nearly close to being completely transitioned ...

[selltheburgh]

I won't dispute that there's crime and definitely drug dealing going on, but for every sketch person you see milling about in the residential area, there are 3-4 "taxpayers" (as they would call them on the wire) jogging by, biking by, walking their dog, pushing a baby carriage, etc. These "tax payers" are all races, faces, sizes, etc.

On the other hand, the tide has turned and the renovations are happening at a pretty fast rate.

Without going into too much detail, there are some big plans for a number of blocks and properties that will likely change the face of the neighborhood more than when the 4 crack houses at Wellesley and Portland were bought by local developers and turned into yuppie apartments and 250k Single family homes.

I'll still dispute the claim that the 700 block of N St clair (or even the 600 blocks of Mellon or St Clair) are sketchy. The 700 block of N St clair had 7 gut renovations within the last 2 years and is mostly homeowners. The intersection of Hays and Mellon is rough still, but that won't last.

There's a 500k house being built on the 700 block of Euclid soon and a house just sold 2 doors in from Stanton on N Beatty for 495k. With those two comps, the sky is the limit.

[eschaton]

I used to live in what you mark "Enright" which I always thought of as "Friendship in East Liberty." A few comments.

1. I would not put Penn Plaza in dark blue, but yellow. I don't think it's even starting to gentrify, although it might be safe.

2. The triangular block on the far side The Sharp Edge should be green - it's Spinning Plate Lofts. In 2010, 46 people lived there, and only one was black.

3. The row of houses facing Penn Circle was built by the Housing Authority as infill some time in the mid-20th century, and they directly own some of the houses still. They may not be dangerous, but they're not gentrifying, unlike the Victorians. I'd say they're yellow.

4. Most of the first block of South Negley is uninhabited, since that private school bought out and demoed everything save that one apartment building at the end. On the next block back, there's a nursing home, four historic houses, a parking lot, and another mini-project of five townhouses for low-income people. It's difficult to depict this on a map I would guess.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I used to live in what you mark "Enright" which I always thought of as "Friendship in East Liberty." A few comments.

1. I would not put Penn Plaza in dark blue, but yellow. I don't think it's even starting to gentrify, although it might be safe.

"Enright aka Southern East Lib aka East Friendship" is nice, but not really gentrified. It is more of a grad student rental area. The houses are mostly apartments with a some homeowners on S St Clair and Auburn. There are a few trouble rentals and the rest are just average rentals for young professionals or grad students. There's a renovated house for sale for 350k on S St Clair. It has been sitting for months. There aren't nearly as many renovated houses in this enclave as northern east lib, but it also has transformed into a nice rental community in the last 5-10 years.

How can a giant 60's era tower be "gentrified"? I'll state that it isn't sh!tty. It is also likely going to be taken down for a large development soon enough. The same people own Babyland's buildings now.

Originally Posted by eschaton

2. The triangular block on the far side The Sharp Edge should be green - it's Spinning Plate Lofts. In 2010, 46 people lived there, and only one was black.

what's race matter? It is artist residences that are lower income, but because they are "starving artists."

Originally Posted by eschaton

3. The row of houses facing Penn Circle was built by the Housing Authority as infill some time in the mid-20th century, and they directly own some of the houses still. They may not be dangerous, but they're not gentrifying, unlike the Victorians. I'd say they're yellow.

One of them sold for a pretty penny in recent years. They are what they are. Nothing fancy, but not crappy.

Originally Posted by eschaton

4. Most of the first block of South Negley is uninhabited, since that private school bought out and demoed everything save that one apartment building at the end. On the next block back, there's a nursing home, four historic houses, a parking lot, and another mini-project of five townhouses for low-income people. It's difficult to depict this on a map I would guess.

The entire area that is red - if the average house there is selling for at least 200k now, what will those prices be when it is "gentrfying/no longer ghetto but not the best"?

I'm not too savvy with the google maps, or i'd be a lot less general than this is. I could break down that entire northern cluster by groups of 1-6 houses. I know those properties, owners, renters, and development plans pretty well there. 2 of the 4 roughest blocks are still in Highland Park. Highland Park's worst drug buildings are getting a gut renovation that started this week.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

"Enright aka Southern East Lib aka East Friendship" is nice, but not really gentrified. It is more of a grad student rental area. The houses are mostly apartments with a some homeowners on S St Clair and Auburn. There are a few trouble rentals and the rest are just average rentals for young professionals or grad students. There's a renovated house for sale for 350k on S St Clair. It has been sitting for months. There aren't nearly as many renovated houses in this enclave as northern east lib, but it also has transformed into a nice rental community in the last 5-10 years.

I lived right on South Negley for two years, so I've walked most of those blocks numerous times. My experience back then was pretty similar. This area never really "turned" to majority black, unlike the rest of East Liberty.

That said, there is one big gentrification pressure these blocks have which northern East Liberty doesn't. When Shadyside was added to the Colfax/Allderdice feeder, this area (well, all of East Liberty south of Penn Avenue) was as well. Therefore it could potentially have a huge appeal as a family enclave as the years go by.

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

How can a giant 60's era tower be "gentrified"? I'll state that it isn't sh!tty. It is also likely going to be taken down for a large development soon enough. The same people own Babyland's buildings now.

Agreed. Hopefully they restore the old road grid, and do some contextual infill.

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

what's race matter? It is artist residences that are lower income, but because they are "starving artists."

Point taken. My main point was that block had population, thus was part of "residential" East Liberty. I know you don't believe in gentrification being a useful word, but an artist residence is a common first-wave gentrification pattern.

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

I'm not too savvy with the google maps, or i'd be a lot less general than this is. I could break down that entire northern cluster by groups of 1-6 houses. I know those properties, owners, renters, and development plans pretty well there. 2 of the 4 roughest blocks are still in Highland Park. Highland Park's worst drug buildings are getting a gut renovation that started this week.

Wouldn't doing such a detailed map undercut your own business?

[Uptown kid]

I lived right on South Negley for two years, so I've walked most of those blocks numerous times. My experience back then was pretty similar. This area never really "turned" to majority black, unlike the rest of East Liberty.

That area was claimed by the Pierce Street Crips in the early 1990's, yet idk what the demographics were in that area back then.

Though I'll focus on some more editing/relabeling tomorrow...

[selltheburgh]

...and now look at Pierce Street - $1500 / month for a 3 BR row house that faces the busway and railroad tracks.

[Uptown kid]

I'll still dispute the claim that the 700 block of N St clair..."

I'll take your word for it and make the change, and add that block to the dark blue labeled area...

1. I would not put Penn Plaza in dark blue, but yellow. I don't think it's even starting to gentrify, although it might be safe.

Good point... I made a separate category for those apartments.
For those that don't know Penn Plaza is not as comforting as New Pennly Park Mixed-Income Apts or the Fairfield Mixed-Income Apts, but its nowhere near as bad as the East Liberty Gardens Apts (which is locally know as the Nolia, implying that the complex is an off shot of the more dangerous New Orleans Magnolia Housing Projects that are no longer in existence). Yet ever since the Penn Circle East Tower was replaced by the big Target this complex has had far less shootings, as it no longer has an overcasting shadow that draws the police's attention from it.

2. The triangular block on the far side The Sharp Edge should be green - it's Spinning Plate Lofts. In 2010, 46 people lived there, and only one was black.

3. The row of houses facing Penn Circle was built by the Housing Authority as infill some time in the mid-20th century, and they directly own some of the houses still. They may not be dangerous, but they're not gentrifying, unlike the Victorians. I'd say they're yellow.

4. Most of the first block of South Negley is uninhabited, since that private school bought out and demoed everything save that one apartment building at the end. On the next block back, there's a nursing home, four historic houses, a parking lot, and another mini-project of five townhouses for low-income people. It's difficult to depict this on a map I would guess.

Tired to assess those in that area. I made that set of older townhouse apartments pn Penn Circle West yellow like I was thinking initially... And labeled the Spinning Plate Lofts Apts... Yet I kept that area of South Negley in the green- greatly improved; 'cuz even though its lower/working class inhabited, its still better than it used to be.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I lived right on South Negley for two years, so I've walked most of those blocks numerous times. My experience back then was pretty similar. This area never really "turned" to majority black, unlike the rest of East Liberty.

That said, there is one big gentrification pressure these blocks have which northern East Liberty doesn't. When Shadyside was added to the Colfax/Allderdice feeder, this area (well, all of East Liberty south of Penn Avenue) was as well. Therefore it could potentially have a huge appeal as a family enclave as the years go by.

Yes, that little enclave feeds into Colfax, but there are hardly any owner occupied houses. Most of them are split into apartments and they aren't too nice looking. They are mostly grad students and yuppies in them, but the exteriors are pretty ratty - with missing porches, bad roofs, chipping paint.

The big difference between this area and the Northern section of East Liberty is that there were a lot of rental foreclosures in the northern section and ELDI acquired most of them and are continuing to do so. Because of the acquisition price and the first look programs, they were able to turn most of them into single family houses again. This northern section is becoming a family enclave with a lot of owner occupants. The slight issue is that Fulton is the feeder school, which isn't bad or great and it will hopefully improve. It is the feeder for pretty much all of Highland Park and East Liberty, but it is also a Magnet school for the entire city. The other magnets draw kids away from the neighborhood.

Right now, the rentals in the southern section are likely too expensive and too big for most future homeowners to buy them and turn them into single family owner occupants. They aren't destroyed and the value is too high. Meanwhile, the values in the northern section for rental properties aren't too high, but are rising. They probably average around 125k, but not many of them are selling. The Single family values easily range from 160-350k

Originally Posted by eschaton

Wouldn't doing such a detailed map undercut your own business?

I'm small potatoes compared to many of the other developers and landlords around there. I don't have the capital to do anything in the immediate future. The more the merrier as long as they are doing decent or above average work. There's enough vacant property around, but it'll eventually run out. That's why we're starting to think of which neighborhood is next to be hot.

Besides, my map would show what has occurred and what is scheduled rather than potential opportunities!

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Yet I kept that area of South Negley in the green- greatly improved; 'cuz even though its lower/working class inhabited, its still better than it used to be.

The area is pretty similar to the parts of Friendship/Bloomfield just south of Penn Avenue in terms of occasional spillover property crime from Garfield. Physically it's in worse shape though, because as noted, the houses are huge and owned by slumlords who use them as student rentals.

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

Yes, that little enclave feeds into Colfax, but there are hardly any owner occupied houses. Most of them are split into apartments and they aren't too nice looking. They are mostly grad students and yuppies in them, but the exteriors are pretty ratty - with missing porches, bad roofs, chipping paint.

Absolutely. I used to walk these streets, and they are dumps for the most part. Much of city-defined Friendship isn't much better (the "owner-occupied" Friendship is more the first few blocks past this in Bloomfield)

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

The big difference between this area and the Northern section of East Liberty is that there were a lot of rental foreclosures in the northern section and ELDI acquired most of them and are continuing to do so. Because of the acquisition price and the first look programs, they were able to turn most of them into single family houses again. This northern section is becoming a family enclave with a lot of owner occupants. The slight issue is that Fulton is the feeder school, which isn't bad or great and it will hopefully improve. It is the feeder for pretty much all of Highland Park and East Liberty, but it is also a Magnet school for the entire city. The other magnets draw kids away from the neighborhood.

Hopefully Fulton will "turn" again to being a neighborhood school that people feel comfortable sending their kids. I have to say I don't have much hope - the Upper East End is one part of the city where the white population pretty much bailed on neighborhood schools entirely, which is why you have schools with mostly white feeder areas (Arsenal, Sunnyside, Woolslair), which have 70%+ black student bodies.

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

I'm small potatoes compared to many of the other developers and landlords around there. I don't have the capital to do anything in the immediate future. The more the merrier as long as they are doing decent or above average work. There's enough vacant property around, but it'll eventually run out. That's why we're starting to think of which neighborhood is next to be hot.

Besides, my map would show what has occurred and what is scheduled rather than potential opportunities!

If you want it, I have an SVG map I made of East Liberty showing every parcel. If you have a copy if Inkscape, you could color code them whatever you want to post.