anyone work as a programmer/tutor in programming languages

[BarqCider]

honestly i think its the method of teaching programming that makes it or break it. I took java elsewhere and she had a pretty clear way she wanted it and somewhat gives you how to do it.

this class is pretty much "heres the definition and go google it and find a way to do it". not my cup o tea.

[XRiteMA98]

yuk... i had a couple of these in my time too. google the definition or ask here. basically what needs to be done? I always start with what the end result needs to be in order to figure out the starting point. Unless you have to implememnt one of those classical algorhithms nobody uses in real life (I used them maybe 3 times in my entire life), unless you work for Google and facebook. But in other places, like financial sector, insurance, healthcare etc you won;t need this kind of stuff or vey rare.

but needless to say if you have homework you need to do it, nomatter if you are going to use this stuff in real life or not.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by wyoh

I agree, I think it's better to start with something that really doesn't require an IDE. Or that at least uses a very simplistic IDE that makes it easy for them to see what their code is doing. Procedural is way easier to understand from scratch than OO.

My first real language was Pascal because that was what they used in my high school programming class. It was a pretty good place to start I think.

I'd rather start them off with a useful language...C

So many languages are C-based in how the code looks nowadays.

I'm not convinced the OO is the way to go as it introduces so much abstraction and complexity. Coding is already complex enough and OO doesn't seem to be helping. The quest for properly structured code along with the detailed declarations and inheritances to save duplication leads to less creativity and is a nightmare to debug especially if someone else wrote it.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by BarqCider

honestly i think its the method of teaching programming that makes it or break it. I took java elsewhere and she had a pretty clear way she wanted it and somewhat gives you how to do it.

this class is pretty much "heres the definition and go google it and find a way to do it". not my cup o tea.

I think the latter is the way programming is being taught today. Programming classes used to be about studying the language. At the end, you had a good understanding such that you can create your own. It's not so easy now to write a program from scratch. Often you get some code that sort of does what you want and start modifying it, being sure that all those verbose declarations are left intact.

I tried to write using XCode... It'll take me a while.

[ryanm3685]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I'd rather start them off with a useful language...C

So many languages are C-based in how the code looks nowadays.

I'm not convinced the OO is the way to go as it introduces so much abstraction and complexity. Coding is already complex enough and OO doesn't seem to be helping. The quest for properly structured code along with the detailed declarations and inheritances to save duplication leads to less creativity and is a nightmare to debug especially if someone else wrote it.

I agree that you don't want to spring objects on new programmers until they have control structures down (loops, if-else, switch, etc.) and can write some simple programs comfortably. I first programmed with Visual Basic then C++ (no OO, strictly procedural programming though). Eventually, I got into Java.

I have mixed feelings about people learning it as a first language. On one hand, it forces you to develop good habits and will protect you from silent corruption of your code (I'm looking at you, C). On the other hand, how the hell do you explain what public class means to someone who's never written?

I think the latter is the way programming is being taught today. Programming classes used to be about studying the language. At the end, you had a good understanding such that you can create your own. It's not so easy now to write a program from scratch. Often you get some code that sort of does what you want and start modifying it, being sure that all those verbose declarations are left intact.

I tried to write using XCode... It'll take me a while.

Yeah, the "go Google what you need" approach is good only after you really have one language under your belt, and you know some of the differences between your first language and your new one. For example, Java was the first language I really got good with. I learned some PHP, C, MySQL, and JavaScript recently, and as long as some theory behind the language is taught (i.e. JavaScript is object-based while Java is object-oriented).

I like XCode's syntax highlighting and auto indentation, and I think they are great for new programmers (and experienced ones) to have.