Mon-Fayette-Expressway extension revived (Pittsburgh, Monroe: buses, airport, rail)

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi

The Mon-Fayette Expressway is the domain of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission, which has nothing whatsoever to do with public transit, so the money they have isn't going into public transit projects, period.

Furthermore, I've never once said or implied that I'm against public transit; in fact, I'm in favor of expanding it too. But the fact is, Pittsburgh's highway infrastructure sucks a big one, and the Parkways East and West were functionally obsolete THE MOMENT THEY OPENED SIX DECADES AGO. The Parkway West in particular is so far over capacity that cutting traffic demand in half with public transportation STILL WON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM. The Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission had this to say in an extensive multimodal transportation study in 2002:





These are the problems:


1. The Parkway West handles more than twice as much traffic as it was designed to.

2. The design of interchanges has never been changed despite many of them being dangerous.

3. The accident rate is higher than the state average.

4. Congestion on the Parkway West is so bad that it produces traffic jams on nearby surface streets too.


Public transit alone will not solve the problem. There needs to be BOTH an expansion of public transit AND an expansion of the Parkway West, period.

1 - We never said anything about the MFE, it was your assurtion that PennDot has "Authority" of appropreating resources to the Parkway West, while Allegheny County controls PAT. This is a misnomer on your part. While PennDot is the Governing Agency, funding is already appropriated before it even funnels through PennDot... This amount goes to Road, this to Bridges, this to Transit. PennDot IS a governing agency of PAT, with more of a heirarcy then Allegheny County, since the majority of PAT's funding comes from State sources not local, and those state sources all funnel through PennDOT into PAT/SEPTA.

Its the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Not "The Department of Roads".

2 - Infrastructure Sucks Everywhere in this country (mostly the NE), buddy... Tell us something we don't know. Don't relinquish the fact that PennDot stated don't look for Parkway widening anytime soon... Hell PennDot can barely keep the bridges from falling.


3 - If you're widening the Parkway West and nothing all you're doing is taking one problem and moving it somewhere else. What happens if you widen the PW without doing the Tunnels, and you can't do the tunnels without doing the Bridge. Then if you do the Bridge and the Tunnel its still only 2 lanes through the Parkway East through Downtown. Not to mention the whole FT Pitt Bridge/Ft Duquesne Bridge/10th Street Bypass Interchange that would be the new point of Gridlock, still rippling through the FT Bridge and Tunnel out to the PW. So instead of the Gridlock being before the Tunnel (inbound) you've shifted it to After the Tunnel (still Inbound)... WTG Genius! .

Then we still have the PE and the Squirrel Hill Tunnels that are two lanes only with its own Rush Hour Problem, and it feeds directly to/from the Ft Bridge/Tunnel and PW. So the Squirrel Hill tunnels will need Widen too...

Just where is all this FUNDING GONNA COME FROM?

You can wish, hope, and pray all day long til the Cows come home .... NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Public Transit to get Cars off the Road, is the Only LOGICAL Answer at this point.

And because you've widen the PW now more people are going feel free to drive, guess what eventually that 3rd contiguous inbound lane is now gridlocked just like when we had only 2 lanes. Then your right back on here screaming that we need a 4th Inbound lane, and then a 5th, then a 6th, and so-on.

Here's a question for all of you: Who seem to think 100 billion for transportation projects can just come out from nowhere.

If the City/County suddenly came up with the 100 billion dollars it would take to do just 1 Grandiose Transportation project and they had to chose between either...

Widening Parkways and all intermittent links

or

Extend LRT to all four corners of the County

Which one would the POL chose to do, they can only do one or the other NOT BOTH.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

If the City/County suddenly came up with the 100 billion dollars it would take to do just 1 Grandiose Transportation project and they had to chose between either...

Widening Parkways and all intermittent links

or

Extend LRT to all four corners of the County

Which one would the POL chose to do, they can only do one or the other NOT BOTH.

Most of Pittsburgh really isn't that transit orientated. I can see some expansion of LRT, or perhaps Bus Rapid Transit, or more commuter trains, but massive expansion would probably be a real waste.


The area is just too spread out, and people need to go to too many different places to make it effective.

Probably would mean a lot of near empty trains running on a late night trip from North Fayette to Franklin Park, or Plum to Elizabeth Township, and not enough money in fare to even pay the driver.

[Merge]

Considering the topography of Pittsburgh... which is central to the region... mass transit seems to be a much wiser investment than widening every highway that suburban/exurban developers demand to be expanded. It certainly isn't the best use of resources from the city's perspective.

Anyway... If you do one, the others complain. What's it gonna be? It's no coincidence that northern sprawl wins out when it comes to the suburbs (it's certainly no credit [nor fault] of their own). It's all a caprice of topography. They don't have to contend with a tunnel. You could put more gaping holes in those hills and it's still probably going to be the same situation.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

1 - We never said anything about the MFE, it was your assurtion that PennDot has "Authority" of appropreating resources to the Parkway West, while Allegheny County controls PAT. This is a misnomer on your part. While PennDot is the Governing Agency, funding is already appropriated before it even funnels through PennDot... This amount goes to Road, this to Bridges, this to Transit. PennDot IS a governing agency of PAT, with more of a heirarcy then Allegheny County, since the majority of PAT's funding comes from State sources not local, and those state sources all funnel through PennDOT into PAT/SEPTA.

Its the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Not "The Department of Roads".

2 - Infrastructure Sucks Everywhere in this country (mostly the NE), buddy... Tell us something we don't know. Don't relinquish the fact that PennDot stated don't look for Parkway widening anytime soon... Hell PennDot can barely keep the bridges from falling.


3 - If you're widening the Parkway West and nothing all you're doing is taking one problem and moving it somewhere else. What happens if you widen the PW without doing the Tunnels, and you can't do the tunnels without doing the Bridge. Then if you do the Bridge and the Tunnel its still only 2 lanes through the Parkway East through Downtown. Not to mention the whole FT Pitt Bridge/Ft Duquesne Bridge/10th Street Bypass Interchange that would be the new point of Gridlock, still rippling through the FT Bridge and Tunnel out to the PW. So instead of the Gridlock being before the Tunnel (inbound) you've shifted it to After the Tunnel (still Inbound)... WTG Genius! .

Then we still have the PE and the Squirrel Hill Tunnels that are two lanes only with its own Rush Hour Problem, and it feeds directly to/from the Ft Bridge/Tunnel and PW. So the Squirrel Hill tunnels will need Widen too...

Just where is all this FUNDING GONNA COME FROM?

You can wish, hope, and pray all day long til the Cows come home .... NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Public Transit to get Cars off the Road, is the Only LOGICAL Answer at this point.

And because you've widen the PW now more people are going feel free to drive, guess what eventually that 3rd contiguous inbound lane is now gridlocked just like when we had only 2 lanes. Then your right back on here screaming that we need a 4th Inbound lane, and then a 5th, then a 6th, and so-on.

Here's a question for all of you: Who seem to think 100 billion for transportation projects can just come out from nowhere.

If the City/County suddenly came up with the 100 billion dollars it would take to do just 1 Grandiose Transportation project and they had to chose between either...

Widening Parkways and all intermittent links

or

Extend LRT to all four corners of the County

Which one would the POL chose to do, they can only do one or the other NOT BOTH.

Transit in 4 directions? 10 times out of 10. I've never heard of such a proposal, though.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Merge

Considering the topography of Pittsburgh... which is central to the region... mass transit seems to be a much wiser investment than widening every highway that suburban/exurban developers demand to be expanded. It certainly isn't the best use of resources from the city's perspective.

Anyway... If you do one, the others complain. What's it gonna be? It's no coincidence that northern sprawl wins out when it comes to the suburbs (it's certainly no credit [nor fault] of their own). It's all a caprice of topography. They don't have to contend with a tunnel. You could put more gaping holes in those hills and it's still probably going to be the same situation.

I expect more lanes and better commute times will bring even more sprawl.

[tclifton]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

If the City/County suddenly came up with the 100 billion dollars it would take to do just 1 Grandiose Transportation project and they had to chose between either...

Widening Parkways and all intermittent links

or

Extend LRT to all four corners of the County

Which one would the POL chose to do, they can only do one or the other NOT BOTH.

Widening the parkways, of course.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by tclifton

Widening the parkways, of course.

You wish ... LOL ... Not with this Mayor and County Exec.

[tclifton]

Sorry, you said POL...I thought you were asking what our choice would be.

[Craziaskowboi]

With $100B, you could expand PAT, modernize SEPTA, and widen every urban highway and replace every structurally deficient bridge in Pennsylvania, and you'd still have money left over when it's all said and done. Therefore, the answer is all of the above.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi

With $100B, you could expand PAT, modernize SEPTA, and widen every urban highway and replace every structurally deficient bridge in Pennsylvania, and you'd still have money left over when it's all said and done. Therefore, the answer is all of the above.

Bring on the Marcellus taxes...

Total PA gov state spending in 2014: $86.2 billion. Don't see your proposal as realistic.