Downtown Macy's Closing (Pittsburgh, Erie, Liberty: refrigerator, job market, to buy)

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I think you're putting too much faith in city dwellers desire to pay for parking. Downtown doesn't have the population yet to support retail alone & most people don't care to use mass transit if they have any major shopping to do, thus they way things are set up, most people in the city are likely to drive outside of the city (or go to the E. Liberty Target if they carry what you want) for their primary shopping needs rather then deal with the hassles of going downtown for things they can easily get elsewhere.

The only way for downtown shopping to thrive is for it to offer options that are not available elsewhere in the area, that will bring people in from both in & out of the city. That's pretty much what kept Saks running for as long as it did.

I don't desire to pay for parking, but I usually don't mind it if it means parking is convenient and available. If I'm just picking up a few things I'll bus or bike it. If I'm having a major shopping trip I don't mind paying $5 to park.

[Johnny C]

I would like to use the word "vibrant" because it was not mentioned enough in this thread.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

No it is not ... Downtown being successful DOES NOT Depend on the burbs being able come to town and park for free ... You keep trying to convince yourself of that, but it's blatant fallacy.

Burbs have always been about the Malls, will always continue to be about the Malls. Downtown needs to focus on the Daytime Worker, who already needs to come Downtown, the Downtown Dweller, and people who have easy access to town without added expense of Traffic and Parking.
[/b]

That is, however, just a small minority of the shopping public. Most people don't work or live in town, and most have easier access to malls than they do to public transportation to town. Even here in L'ville, its a shorter trip by time to drive to Macy's in Ross Park that it is to get to the downtown store which requires waiting on a bus, walking 5 blocks. and the return trip hauling the purchases. And the public transport from here is better than it is for 90% of the population.


However, shopping in town is useful for those without cars, and those people are mostly poor in the current day and age. Lower brow shopping experience seems ideal for this group, as well as for a group that you failed to mention.


Downtown is a transit hub. Plenty of workers and students travel through town to get from their homes on North Side to their jobs in South Hills or the Airport, or from the Rocks out to the East End or Homestead. Lower cost shopping in town could attract these folks to pick stuff up on their way home.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Downtown isn't about trying to attract people who's first thought is about parking... Guess what if you problem with town is Parking. Downtown's NOT catering to you, stay in the Burbs.

Downtown needs to cater to People who already live, work, or have easy access via public transit into town.... "My Car 1st" people, Keep your Asses in the Burbs!

Keep my ass in the burbs, eh?

Guess I'll have to sit my ass in the back of the bus (since you're relegating me to second class status n'at) this morning as I ride to my office on Fourth Avenue.. which is ironically ya know, downtown.

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

That is, however, just a small minority of the shopping public. Most people don't work or live in town, and most have easier access to malls than they do to public transportation to town. Even here in L'ville, its a shorter trip by time to drive to Macy's in Ross Park that it is to get to the downtown store which requires waiting on a bus, walking 5 blocks. and the return trip hauling the purchases. And the public transport from here is better than it is for 90% of the population.

This was the point I was trying to make. If downtown wants to build a vibrant shopping scene, it has to realize that its competing against the convenience of other areas. Ross Park Mall, Waterworks, Waterfront all have convenient highway access and oodles of free parking. South Side Works has very convenient parking, even though it is not free. If it is made too difficult to drive downtown, there can never be a vibrant shopping scene as people will shop where it is more convenient for them.

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

Parker Button is now in the South Side on Carson Street.

Yeah, but it is not the same, it's just a section of a bridal shop now.

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

That is, however, just a small minority of the shopping public. Most people don't work or live in town, and most have easier access to malls than they do to public transportation to town. Even here in L'ville, its a shorter trip by time to drive to Macy's in Ross Park that it is to get to the downtown store which requires waiting on a bus, walking 5 blocks. and the return trip hauling the purchases. And the public transport from here is better than it is for 90% of the population.


However, shopping in town is useful for those without cars, and those people are mostly poor in the current day and age. Lower brow shopping experience seems ideal for this group, as well as for a group that you failed to mention.


Downtown is a transit hub. Plenty of workers and students travel through town to get from their homes on North Side to their jobs in South Hills or the Airport, or from the Rocks out to the East End or Homestead. Lower cost shopping in town could attract these folks to pick stuff up on their way home.

No.

[Geeo]

I'm anxious to see what the plans are for the building. A hotel, apartments and retail on the first two floors sounds good and will fill up an otherwise underutilized building. When Gimbels closed the whole chain of stores in 1986, the downtown building sat vacant for years before it was redeveloped (this was during the steel collapse). This building has a willing buyer and plans, so it's not going to stay vacant.

Yes, it's the end of an era for the big downtown department store, but almost all of the comments I've read on social media start with, "I remember going downtown as a kid...." so it's evident that most people abandoned Kaufmann's/Macy's years ago.

[pman]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

This was the point I was trying to make. If downtown wants to build a vibrant shopping scene, it has to realize that its competing against the convenience of other areas. Ross Park Mall, Waterworks, Waterfront all have convenient highway access and oodles of free parking. South Side Works has very convenient parking, even though it is not free. If it is made too difficult to drive downtown, there can never be a vibrant shopping scene as people will shop where it is more convenient for them.

In reality if you make it too easy to drive downtown those people will still shop where it's more convenient and downtown will be less attrwctive to live in or visit, things it is kuch more competitive in. Pittsburgh already has eight times more garage spaces than philadelphia per capita. Geeo hit the nail on the head. The building isn't vacant, it's the passing of an era but not a sign of decline.

[theta_sigma]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the way forward for downtown (and this is not unique to Pittsburgh by any stretch of the imagination) is not to try to emulate suburban shopping (it well never be able to anyway) but to present a unique experience that people can't get anywhere else. People who just want to get in, buy some housewares and get out and on with their day as fast and cheaply as possible should not be the target market because downtown won't ever be able to fill that niche. People who want a complete cultural experience which includes shopping at unique stores, dining, music, drinking, and spending time on streets that are pleasant to stroll will spend the extra time and expense to come downtown and get the value-added elements that differentiate downtown from the waterfront or Ross Park. Those people don't want the same Macy's that exists at their nearest mall.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by theta_sigma

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the way forward for downtown (and this is not unique to Pittsburgh by any stretch of the imagination) is not to try to emulate suburban shopping (it well never be able to anyway) but to present a unique experience that people can't get anywhere else. People who just want to get in, buy some housewares and get out and on with their day as fast and cheaply as possible should not be the target market because downtown won't ever be able to fill that niche. People who want a complete cultural experience which includes shopping at unique stores, dining, music, drinking, and spending time on streets that are pleasant to stroll will spend the extra time and expense to come downtown and get the value-added elements that differentiate downtown from the waterfront or Ross Park. Those people don't want the same Macy's that exists at their nearest mall.

In fact, when department stores were built in downtown, that's the atmosphere they created.Once they built stores elsewhere, their demise was written.