The continued insistence that Pittsburgh is the Midwest (York: live in, move)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Look, I was responding to a general comment about how "America is too big" -- all I meant is that it's hard to reach consensus across such a large geographic area as this country. I understand that the bigger picture is more complicated than what I can type on my phone while bored at a bus stop. Got it.

I did not appreciate you implying that I was too ignorant to understand that there are red, blue and "swing" states, whatever it is you meant by that, and that you couldn't convince me. What you don't seem to get is that there is a wide distribution of these states, which wouldn't be resolved by dividing the country up geographically. See this: "Of those in solid red territory, four are in the South, as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau (Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama and South Carolina), four are in the Mountain West (Utah, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming), three are in the Midwest (North Dakota, South Dakota and Kansas), and the other is Alaska. Of those, Wyoming is the most Republican state, with 31.8 percent of respondents over the course of the last year identifying as Republican or leaning Republican. ... The solid Democratic states in 2015 were largely coastal (California, New York, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey), with a few inland outliers (Illinois, New Mexico and Vermont). The only two states that moved in a more Democratic direction in 2015 were New Mexico and Nebraska (which, as stated above, still leans Republican)."

Read more: Gallup: Red states now outnumber blue states - POLITICO
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Note that the blue states span the country, and there are red states everywhere except the northeast and the west coast (though some consider Idaho, or at least part of it as west coast). Note also that even in Wyoming, the reddest of the reds, only 31% consider themselves Republican or leaning Republican.

[Pughnose]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

What you don't seem to get is that there is a wide distribution of these states, which wouldn't be resolved by dividing the country up geographically.

Of course things are considerably more fragmented than that. Having lived in CA, OR, and WA, I can attest that in general the eastern and rural portions of all these states are pretty conservative. Long live the Great State of Jefferson!

To address the original topic: I've never lived in the Midwest or on the East Coast. As a relative Pgh newbie of less than two years, I don't consider Pittsburgh particularly NE or Appalachian or Great Plains (which is what I think of when I think of the Midwest, shows what I know.) I guess I'm on Team Mid-Atlantic (although I'll admit to a complete ignorance of any such named region prior to moving here and seeing the question addressed on this forum. What *are* they teaching kids in school these days?!?)

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

I did not appreciate you implying that I was too ignorant to understand that there are red, blue and "swing" states...

I never thought you were ignorant. I don't think we have a substantive disagreement about anything. I was making a broad generalization about the fact that it's hard to reach consensus in this country. You are continuing to argue that the picture is more complicated than that. You are correct. The rest is you reading a whole lot of stuff into comments that aren't meant to be taken very seriously. I am really only responding because I feel bad about this, not because I actually care what you think of me or my general understanding of the world.

I do think debates would be resolved more quickly in a smaller country, not because that makes the populace less divergent in their opinions, but simply because it's easier to establish productive dialogue when the group of people is smaller. It's a very banal point, and I am sorry that it seems to be upsetting you so deeply. I know it's awful when strangers on the Internet are wrong.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Pughnose

Of course things are considerably more fragmented than that. Having lived in CA, OR, and WA, I can attest that in general the eastern and rural portions of all these states are pretty conservative. Long live the Great State of Jefferson!

To address the original topic: I've never lived in the Midwest or on the East Coast. As a relative Pgh newbie of less than two years, I don't consider Pittsburgh particularly NE or Appalachian or Great Plains (which is what I think of when I think of the Midwest, shows what I know.) I guess I'm on Team Mid-Atlantic (although I'll admit to a complete ignorance of any such named region prior to moving here and seeing the question addressed on this forum. What *are* they teaching kids in school these days?!?)

As I said upthread, I learned that term back in grade school in the 50s. I guess it's a PA thing. Whereas I had never heard of the "Upper Midwest" until I don't know exactly when, but I was well out of college by then.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

People happy with things in the old world didn't leave.

I visited the town in Germany from which mine came and saw 3 war memorials - for the Franco Prussian war, WWI and WWII. The first had about 20 names, half of which were my relatives. The WWI memorial had about 40 names on it. My people left around 1880 so they avoided that one. The WWII memorial had over 100 names. There are only about 300 homes in the town.

That really brought home to me that they made the right decision leaving.

My mom's mom's family left Germany some time before the US civil war, so my great gf could avoid the German draft. Instead, he enlisted in the 26th Wisconsin Infantry for the Civil War and saw action at a number of major battles. He helped Gen. Sherman burn down Atlanta. His unit was at Gettysburg, but he was in a Confederate hospital at the time, having been taken prisoner during the battle of Chancellorsville. (Rumor has it a confederate doctor let him escape.) He shook hands with Abraham Lincoln when Lincoln reviewed the troops at the end of the war, shortly before he (Lincoln) was shot.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

People happy with things in the old world didn't leave.

I visited the town in Germany from which mine came and saw 3 war memorials - for the Franco Prussian war, WWI and WWII. The first had about 20 names, half of which were my relatives. The WWI memorial had about 40 names on it. My people left around 1880 so they avoided that one. The WWII memorial had over 100 names. There are only about 300 homes in the town.

That really brought home to me that they made the right decision leaving.

I've been interested in going back to my great grandfather's home village (which was also my great grandmother's - they didn't know each other in the village because her family immigrated when she was three, while he waited until 17 - they happened to meet up through mutual acquaintances once in America). That said, the village is now in Romania, and was completely ethnically cleansed of ethnic Germans (who made up the entire population) following World War II. So I sort of don't see the point. Maybe the family homes of my great grandparents are still standing however.

I'm pretty certain I have some third cousins and the like who live in Germany today. But there's really no purpose in meeting them.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've been interested in going back to my great grandfather's home village (which was also my great grandmother's - they didn't know each other in the village because her family immigrated when she was three, while he waited until 17 - they happened to meet up through mutual acquaintances once in America). That said, the village is now in Romania, and was completely ethnically cleansed of ethnic Germans (who made up the entire population) following World War II. So I sort of don't see the point. Maybe the family homes of my great grandparents are still standing however.

I'm pretty certain I have some third cousins and the like who live in Germany today. But there's really no purpose in meeting them.

You might be surprised. We walked into the small hotel in the town and the woman behind the desk looked so much like one of my sisters they could have been twins. I took a photo of her and sent it to all my sisters without comment and they were astounded. We all got together via Skype and talked. It was great.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've been interested in going back to my great grandfather's home village (which was also my great grandmother's - they didn't know each other in the village because her family immigrated when she was three, while he waited until 17 - they happened to meet up through mutual acquaintances once in America). That said, the village is now in Romania, and was completely ethnically cleansed of ethnic Germans (who made up the entire population) following World War II. So I sort of don't see the point. Maybe the family homes of my great grandparents are still standing however.

I'm pretty certain I have some third cousins and the like who live in Germany today. But there's really no purpose in meeting them.

My great-grandfather's hometown is now in Poland.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by _Buster

well it is very strange that every other region is defined strictly along state boundaries (even the very large western states), but PA and NY they decide to cut down the middle in order to keep drawing the line south.

There is no way that NoVa or the Virginia coast is Northeast. Could be called Mid-atlantic, but they for some reason went out of their way to include it with the Northeast.

Just noticed that a big chunk of NE Minnesota is broken off from the rest of the state as well.

[brother_rebus]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I think another element is there really isn't such a thing as "Northeastern" or "Midwestern" culture. There's just a generic Northern culture which really tends to vary as much (actually more) on a north to south basis than an east to west basis. Thus both the Northeast and Midwest only make sense as geographical identifiers, not as culture families, as the South does.

I don't know if I agree. Pittsburgh is basically caught in a cross-cultural identity struggle.
It cant figure out if it's Northeast, Midwest, or Southern/Appalachian. Personally I love that part about it, and I think thats what gives it much of its charm and character. There certainly is a mid-western culture though. Whether you can perceive it is another thing.