Why is Pittsburgh losing population even though it's economy has been transformed? (California: crime, assessment)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It might be a question for the miserable and more miserable, but how do you think Pittsburgh compares, in all relevant categories, to other rust belt cities like Cleveland, Buffalo, and Detroit. My opinion is it is a little better off largely due to the philanthropy of industrialists that "endowed" the city of its great learning institutions. What does everyone think? Can a once great city be a great city again, if it finds another bloodline? Education, medicine, high-tech, alternate energy development, any other possible strengths to be exploited?
I will always feel "at home" in Buffalo, but it is not in a very good place. I think that Pittsburgh has more to offer as far as jobs and a university education.
And some are relative new members of Pittsburgh's corporate family.
Please make a distinction between a company presence in the city and having your main headquarters in the city. Fedex's headquarters aren't for example in Pittsburgh. And geez, GlaxoSmithKline and Bayer aren't even a US companies. But I suppose while listing those companies you didn't notice that they are all fairly old companies...
Also, calling PNC a "new member" of Pittsburgh corporate family is a bit odd considering its history goes back 150 years in the Pittsburgh area (PNC was formed by merging Pittsburgh and Philly banks in the 1980's).
Anyhow, there are really two separate issues here. 1.) Is Pittsburgh a good place to relocate an established business, 2.) Is Pittsburgh a good place to do a start-up. I think the answer to both of these is "no", but I'm more certain about 2.). In the case of 1.) the city can always give special tax incentives to make the relocation to the area more attractive. Although its not clear how they will beat other areas that already have low corporate tax. Anyhow, I think its pretty obvious these can be answered negatively by just looking at the fact start-ups aren't happening in Pittsburgh and business aren't relocating to Pittsburgh like they have to other regions. Are business just not privy to how great Pittsburgh is for business....?
But business relocation is more complex that taxes etc, for some businesses Pittsburgh's geographic location may be attractive (I'd imagine that's why Fedex is in the area). For others Pittsburgh natural resources may be attractive, that is after all how the steel industry started in Pittsburgh.
Quote:
As for the article I mentioned being laughable..Hey, feel free to laugh..
I will, I know what its like to start/run a business in Pittsburgh vs other areas. Why don't you cite the article though? It would be interesting to see how they made such an odd determination.
I think Pittsburgh is good to start a small business such as a pizza place, auto repair shop, etc. I believe this to be the case because you can still own/rent land on a well traveled road (and possibly an old building) for pennies on the dollar compared to other big cities.
However, for big business, it is bad. The Govt just keeps sucking money out of you until you decide to move out of the county, or out of the state, or even out of the country.
Anyhow, I think its pretty obvious these can be answered negatively by just looking at the fact start-ups aren't happening in Pittsburgh and business aren't relocating to Pittsburgh like they have to other regions.
Do you have good statistics on these matters? I have been looking and haven't been able to find anything comprehensive.
I agree about the Hill. To indulge myself in a quick anecdote, when I first moved to Pittsburgh to attend grad school at Pitt, my office was high up in the Cathedral of Learning, looking out toward the Hill. I remember thinking that the houses up there must be quite expensive, since they had such a great view in a central location. I've never really lost that sense of what the Hill should be, although I would strongly support redevelopment plans that were truly mixed income and that gave the current residents a legitimate chance to be a part of the redevelopment process.
Yeah, I think that is it Brian. Almost invariably, when one approaches a plan for redevelopment, it's nanu-seconds before that old Greed-Factor creeps in, and what happens then, sooner or later, is the vision, the process, the plan, is irreconcilably bastardized. I think the funny thing, the killin' thing, the near hopelessly frustrating thing is the Carpetbagger mentality takes over and it's an increasingly lost vision from then on; the older I get the more I subscribe to the basic philosophy that there is enough to go around for everybody, enough riches, enough opportunity, enough land, enough oil, take it on down the line. Half the world is starving, the other half is obese; ok, admitted hyperbole, but I think the point stands up.
And for all you pragmatic cynics, you may prefer to look at it this way: It doesn't work anyway, on either end of the economic extremes; the poor, if not the current, of-age generation, then its their off-spring that in due time refuse to cooperate and they rebel, revolt, erupt and destroy until the ones in power must concede to some kind of a compromise, if they're to be able to enjoy their spoils in peace; and then the other ones, on top, almost so dependably it's pathological, spoil their kids to the point of uselessness. I don't know about you, but I've seen so many examples of an abundance of cash, opportunities, privilege ruin an otherwise perfectly bright, industrious coming-of-age kid to the point of dereliction that it's almost too much of a cliche to make note.
It's what's killin' our country, especially over the past eight years, and it will be the end of us as an international role model if we don't start moving in the other direction. Sorry to rant, but I think it's what's wrong with our TV, our movies, our music, the fact that in many places the only pizza you can get is either from Domino's or Pizza Hut, 'cause the old time pizzerias can't compete; might sound insignificant to you, but if you're an Italian kid from Pgh marooned in the bland Southwest, believe me, this is a serious issue.
The problem is it's our nature to grab; it's in our DNA, probably going back to the caveman days when there was only one bite alloted per go around, but we've progressed from those times, from that mentality, right?
The Greed Factor is one of the things that made this country great, made us big and strong and powerful, and let's not be too hard on ourselves, we were learning, hope we're still learning, still adapting, but the need to grab is a tough habit to break. What did Carlin say, something that added up to, "This country has sold itself out for gadgets."
Please make a distinction between a company presence in the city and having your main headquarters in the city. Fedex's headquarters aren't for example in Pittsburgh. And geez, GlaxoSmithKline and Bayer aren't even a US companies. But I suppose while listing those companies you didn't notice that they are all fairly old companies...
Also, calling PNC a "new member" of Pittsburgh corporate family is a bit odd considering its history goes back 150 years in the Pittsburgh area (PNC was formed by merging Pittsburgh and Philly banks in the 1980's).
Anyhow, there are really two separate issues here. 1.) Is Pittsburgh a good place to relocate an established business, 2.) Is Pittsburgh a good place to do a start-up. I think the answer to both of these is "no", but I'm more certain about 2.). In the case of 1.) the city can always give special tax incentives to make the relocation to the area more attractive. Although its not clear how they will beat other areas that already have low corporate tax. Anyhow, I think its pretty obvious these can be answered negatively by just looking at the fact start-ups aren't happening in Pittsburgh and business aren't relocating to Pittsburgh like they have to other regions. Are business just not privy to how great Pittsburgh is for business....?
But business relocation is more complex that taxes etc, for some businesses Pittsburgh's geographic location may be attractive (I'd imagine that's why Fedex is in the area). For others Pittsburgh natural resources may be attractive, that is after all how the steel industry started in Pittsburgh.
I will, I know what its like to start/run a business in Pittsburgh vs other areas. Why don't you cite the article though? It would be interesting to see how they made such an odd determination.
To see that this is true, one needs to look no further than Westinghouse. And some one at this forum previously mentioned this point....The difference between Westinghouse's deal in Allegheny County vs. Butler County must have been enormous......because I can promise you that it would take something enormous for a company that big to pack up their entire operation and spend hundreds of millions of dollars to move 2 exits up the turnpike.
I think the conclusion is: Allegheny County isn't fortune 500 friendly.
Anyhow, there are really two separate issues here. 1.) Is Pittsburgh a good place to relocate an established business, 2.) Is Pittsburgh a good place to do a start-up. I think the answer to both of these is "no", but I'm more certain about 2.). In the case of 1.) the city can always give special tax incentives to make the relocation to the area more attractive. Although its not clear how they will beat other areas that already have low corporate tax. Anyhow, I think its pretty obvious these can be answered negatively by just looking at the fact start-ups aren't happening in Pittsburgh and business aren't relocating to Pittsburgh like they have to other regions. Are business just not privy to how great Pittsburgh is for business....?
There are more than a few successful start-ups within the City of Pittsburgh. A healthy economic cluster is emerging from CMU's Entertainment Technology Center. Google opened an office in Pittsburgh for good reason, proximity to talent.
There is plenty wrong with Pittsburgh's entrepreneurial scene, but stating that it is a "fact start-ups aren't happening in Pittsburgh" is flat out bogus. There's no need to fabricate facts in order to critique Pittsburgh.
Duplicating Silicon Valley or even Boston might be mission impossible, but not for a lack of trying. And in terms of domestic migration, those two start-up hot beds are losers, bigger losers than Pittsburgh. People continue to leave California in droves on a daily basis.
One of the problems in Pittsburgh is the predominance of a risk averse culture. But not only does that go for venture capital, it is just as true for would-be entrepreneurs. I think a lot of that stems from chronically weak inmigration. The irony is that weak outmigration is one of the chief culprits for that flow problem.
Google opened an office in Pittsburgh for good reason, proximity to talent.
How does Google opening a rather small center in the Pittsburgh area help start-ups?
Quote:
those two start-up hot beds are losers, bigger losers than Pittsburgh.
In what way?
Quote:
People continue to leave California in droves on a daily basis.
No more than people are leaving Pennsylvania in droves. But the reasons for the out-migration are different. At least anecdotally the main reasons I see people leaving California are retirement and cost of homes (they can sell their CA home and usually buy the same home else where cash with the profit....at least over the last few years). Regardless, mimicking California is not a particularly good idea many businesses have left the area due to the tax/regulatory environment. It is still a good place for start-ups though.
Quote:
There is plenty wrong with Pittsburgh's entrepreneurial scene, but stating that it is a "fact start-ups aren't happening in Pittsburgh" is flat out bogus.
Perhaps I should have said "start-ups aren't happening in Pittsburgh in a major way". There are start-ups in Pittsburgh, just not that many. If Pittsburgh was truly a great place to do business you'd expect to see more given it has a decent pool of talent from CMU and to a lesser degree Pitt.
Quote:
Do you have good statistics on these matters? I have been looking and haven't been able to find anything comprehensive.
No, but a fortune 1000 company relocating to the area isn't something you really miss. Not a single big start-up that I know of has been created in Pittsburgh in the last 20 years or so. Undoubtedly many small businesses have been formed though.
Less people are leaving PA, 12 per 100,000 and CA is 24 per 100,000. But suggesting that people are leaving California in "droves" is just as true as suggesting people are leaving the north-east in "droves" (25 per 100,000). But I did think PA and CA had fairly similar out-migration numbers, but PA is doing better. Regardless, the facts do not indicate that people are leaving California "in droves". So I suggest you "should check your facts before you post". Also, as far as I know this is the most recent report.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Burgh Start-Up Landscape
