Pittsburgh real estate update (Lawrenceville, Penn: schools, tax, lawsuit)

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by gg

Taxes there are $3,603.00 per $100K of value. Let's say you get it assessed at $500K, that would be $18,015 in real estate taxes! Better have some real income going on!

the common level ratio is now .64 in all of Allegheny county. the worst case scenario for any purchase reassessment is 64000 per 100k sale price. so if that house sells for 600k, the worst case is tax assessment of 384k. taxes around 13,500. Not really that unexpected for the location and price point.

there is possible adjusting of the CLR to .5 range for 2024 or 2025. So it might even end up being lower in the future.

The CLR adjustment makes a huge difference on chances of being reassessed and outcome if so. Its a real win for anyone looking to buy or that has been hit hard post sale in the past couple years.

[gg]

Originally Posted by jea6321

the common level ratio is now .64 in all of Allegheny county. the worst case scenario for any purchase reassessment is 64000 per 100k sale price. so if that house sells for 600k, the worst case is tax assessment of 384k. taxes around 13,500. Not really that unexpected for the location and price point.

there is possible adjusting of the CLR to .5 range for 2024 or 2025. So it might even end up being lower in the future.

The CLR adjustment makes a huge difference on chances of being reassessed and outcome if so. Its a real win for anyone looking to buy or that has been hit hard post sale in the past couple years.

I would imagine the school district would fight for near full value in Lebo. Has something changed now they only try for 64%? Even school districts?

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by gg

I would imagine the school district would fight for near full value in Lebo. Has something changed now they only try for 64%? Even school districts?

Yes, there was a lawsuit filed against the county in 2021 and finalized a few months ago. They were proved to have been using incorrect sales data to calculate the CLR relative to 2012. The CLR is now .64. Even if a school district would appeal, its by right that any property owner can not be assessed more than .64 of current fair market value. So a settlement statement showing what was paid or a recent appraisal is the most often used way to determine fair market value. You are going to see a lot less appeals going forward as its just diminishing returns and no longer a low hanging fruit tax grab for schools. The suit was originally arguing for retroactive payments to all property owners for the years 2020 and 2021 which was eventually removed. This was more of a spite move in my opinion, and the group who filed knew it would never happen. The schools wouldn't have had the funds to make the payments and would have bankrupt 90+% of districts in the county.

Im assuming you understand what a common level ratio is and how its applied? See here if not. https://www.pghfirm.com/blog/breakin...property-taxes

[BUILD PENN SQUARE]

again, something is not adding up here

residential downtown is thriving and expanding, and yet at the same time commercial downtown is suffering and contracting

one of these statements is bull - i'm going with the first one

Downtown safety issues could push businesses away

https://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...s/202303190041

“My clients don’t want to come Downtown. My employees don’t want to come Downtown,” said Mr. Fragasso, CEO of Fragasso Financial Advisors. “Why am I spending money to be Downtown?”

Pittsburgh’s central business district is nowhere near as business-friendly as it used to be, according to multiple business owners and workers Downtown.

Financial leaders with offices Downtown say they are beyond frustrated with the city’s efforts — or lack thereof — to address serious public safety and health concerns, including open air drug use and a growing homeless population, that threaten to drive out the office worker crowd."

[BUILD PENN SQUARE]

if you look at recent 15222 real estate transactions, they're mostly in the strip district, not downtown

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-recently-sold

Pittsburgh’s Strip District attracts 'melting pot' of new residents

https://triblive.com/business/city-l...new-residents/

"The industrial, warehouse-dense Strip District was once more well known as one of the best spots to stroll by street vendors to buy Steelers merchandise, pick up a banh mi and bring home specialty cheese or meat at wholesale prices. At night, clubs and bars were the main attraction.

Now, the neighborhood boasts new apartments and condos in former manufacturing facilities, sending its residential population — and rents — soaring."

[gg]

Originally Posted by jea6321

Yes, there was a lawsuit filed against the county in 2021 and finalized a few months ago. They were proved to have been using incorrect sales data to calculate the CLR relative to 2012. The CLR is now .64. Even if a school district would appeal, its by right that any property owner can not be assessed more than .64 of current fair market value. So a settlement statement showing what was paid or a recent appraisal is the most often used way to determine fair market value. You are going to see a lot less appeals going forward as its just diminishing returns and no longer a low hanging fruit tax grab for schools. The suit was originally arguing for retroactive payments to all property owners for the years 2020 and 2021 which was eventually removed. This was more of a spite move in my opinion, and the group who filed knew it would never happen. The schools wouldn't have had the funds to make the payments and would have bankrupt 90+% of districts in the county.

Im assuming you understand what a common level ratio is and how its applied? See here if not. https://www.pghfirm.com/blog/breakin...property-taxes

Well, I haven't been following the real estate market like I used to, but I am surprised I missed this completely. Wow, that is huge news if you ask me. It also is good for growth. It was always a consideration of a home buyer what the taxes could be if you purchase a home. At .64, that is significant.

Thanks.

[jea6321]

Originally Posted by gg

Well, I haven't been following the real estate market like I used to, but I am surprised I missed this completely. Wow, that is huge news if you ask me. It also is good for growth. It was always a consideration of a home buyer what the taxes could be if you purchase a home. At .64, that is significant.

Thanks.

One of the former assessors for the county teaches a class on the assessment processes and CLR at the Ramp school on W Liberty ave. He was involve with the lawsuit and audit of the data. I dont think you need be be a ramp member to take the class. Even if I wasn't an agent needing continuing ed, I would have really enjoyed the class and his insights.

By the way, they are shooting for the CLR to be into the .50's for 2024. Which makes sense, with the base year of 2012, a .5 CLR says that real estate prices have doubled in 12 years. I dont think many could argue that isn't true.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by BUILD PENN SQUARE

if you look at recent 15222 real estate transactions, they're mostly in the strip district, not downtown

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-recently-sold

Pittsburgh’s Strip District attracts 'melting pot' of new residents

https://triblive.com/business/city-l...new-residents/

"The industrial, warehouse-dense Strip District was once more well known as one of the best spots to stroll by street vendors to buy Steelers merchandise, pick up a banh mi and bring home specialty cheese or meat at wholesale prices. At night, clubs and bars were the main attraction.

Now, the neighborhood boasts new apartments and condos in former manufacturing facilities, sending its residential population — and rents — soaring."

Yes. The Strip District is booming. Even the anti-city alarmists on here would have to concede that. Take a walk down Railroad Street or Smallman Street and tell me otherwise.

[svband76]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Yes. The Strip District is booming. Even the anti-city alarmists on here would have to concede that. Take a walk down Railroad Street or Smallman Street and tell me otherwise.

The article writer though is, well, misinformed or doesn't do research. The mention of the Strip's "fresh air" made me chuckle.

[BUILD PENN SQUARE]

just stop for a minute and think about how ridiculous this sentence is

"Real estate experts predict that home prices in the Pittsburgh area will continue to stabilize this home-buying season after peaking amid the buying frenzy that marked the early years of the pandemic."

Ahead of the homebuying season, Pittsburgh list prices return to pre-pandemic level

https://www.wesa.fm/economy-business...andemic-levels

more to the point - there was no pandemic because if we had been in a real pandemic where people were dropping dead all around us the last thing people would have been thinking about is buying a house