May be worth tuning in to today's hearing (Penn: low cost, designs)

[Burghophilia]

Originally Posted by BUILD PENN SQUARE

russia took control of the donbas in FOUR MONTHS

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...aine-maps.html



now they're straightening out their supply lines as they prepare to continue demilitarizing US/NATO armed ukraine

the ukrainian army can't stop them - time to send in NATO troops and start WW3!

Certainly, the Biden Administration has always made clear that US/NATO troops were off the table. Now, if Russia attacks a NATO member, that would be bad, and could escalate. Further, no one seriously believed that Ukraine could prevent Russia from making gains (and even complete control of Ukraine is not out of the question). That said, capturing the Donbas is not the same as holding the Donbas or governing the Donbas.

Just editing to add that, in a practical sense, US national security aims have already (largely) been achieved here, in terms of a re-awakened, strengthened, and enlarged NATO, as well as a weakened Russia, that has more clearly identified itself as a rogue, pariah state, in league with other rogue, pariah states of the world. So, we can weep for the loss of Ukrainian and Russian lives, but US national security has already won.

[BUILD PENN SQUARE]

Originally Posted by Burghophilia

Certainly, the Biden Administration has always made clear that US/NATO troops were off the table. Now, if Russia attacks a NATO member, that would be bad, and could escalate. Further, no one seriously believed that Ukraine could prevent Russia from making gains (and even complete control of Ukraine is not out of the question). That said, capturing the Donbas is not the same as holding the Donbas or governing the Donbas.

oh my god - THE DONBAS IS A SEPARATIST REGION - THEY WANT TO BE PART OF RUSSIA

What you need to know about Ukraine's separatist regions

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine...netsk-luhansk/

"When Ukraine's Moscow-friendly president was driven from office by mass protests in February 2014, Russia responded by annexing Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula. It then threw its weight behind an insurgency in the mostly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine region known as Donbas.

In April 2014, Russia-backed rebels seized government buildings in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, proclaimed the creation of "people's republics" and battled Ukrainian troops and volunteer battalions.

The following month, the separatist regions held a popular vote to declare independence and make a bid to become part of Russia."

[Burghophilia]

Originally Posted by BUILD PENN SQUARE

oh my god - THE DONBAS IS A SEPARATIST REGION - THEY WANT TO BE PART OF RUSSIA

What you need to know about Ukraine's separatist regions

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine...netsk-luhansk/

"When Ukraine's Moscow-friendly president was driven from office by mass protests in February 2014, Russia responded by annexing Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula. It then threw its weight behind an insurgency in the mostly Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine region known as Donbas.

In April 2014, Russia-backed rebels seized government buildings in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, proclaimed the creation of "people's republics" and battled Ukrainian troops and volunteer battalions.

The following month, the separatist regions held a popular vote to declare independence and make a bid to become part of Russia."

The polling on that issue is pretty tough to read and (I think) has been a bit all over the place. Certainly, I recall one post-invasion report reflecting that, many ethnic Russians in the Donbas weren't so keen on joining Russia after being bombed into liberation.

Here's some info from 2019:

https://theconversation.com/most-peo...-survey-124849

[BUILD PENN SQUARE]

Originally Posted by Burghophilia

The polling on that issue is pretty tough to read and (I think) has been a bit all over the place. Certainly, I recall one post-invasion report reflecting that, many ethnic Russians in the Donbas weren't so keen on joining Russia after being bombed into liberation.[/url]

i swear there's a mischievous elementary school teacher in the city who has their students posting here

THE DONBAS WAS SHELLED BY UKRAINE, NOT RUSSIA

didn't i just post a video this morning of zelensky stating his intention to go to war with the donbas?

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...EVa.mp4?tag=12

[Burghophilia]

Originally Posted by BUILD PENN SQUARE

i swear there's a mischievous elementary school teacher in the city who has their students posting here

THE DONBAS WAS SHELLED BY UKRAINE, NOT RUSSIA

didn't i just post a video this morning of zelensky stating his intention to go to war with the donbas?

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...EVa.mp4?tag=12

When you say "go to war," hasn't there been a low level war going on in the Donbas since 2014? Do you have any good sources for what the people of the Donbas favor now? I mean, even that "vote" in 2014 is a bit sketchy -- here's just one article on the issue: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27360146


So, Ukraine bombed Donbas, therefore, Russia needs to bomb Donbas x100 or x1000 or (pick your superlative) to "liberate" these folks? How does that make sense?

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by BUILD PENN SQUARE

this thread is hilarious

wake me up when the criminal trials begin

Bingo

[Tony_Soprano]

Originally Posted by BUILD PENN SQUARE

time to send in NATO troops and start WW3!

and if we need to implement a draft like during vietnam - that won't be a problem because there's "bipartisan support"

I really hope that all the individuals boasting that they "stand with Ukraine" are the first ones to be drafted. Same goes for all of those individuals who put that in their social media bios along with the flag of Ukraine. Same for all those with yard signs, car stickers and Ukraine flags flying outside their homes.

Really looking forward to see how long and fervent they "stand with Ukraine." More like curl up in a fetal position and crap their pants faster than Senile Joe in Vatican City when they arrive in Ukraine.

[Burghophilia]

Originally Posted by Tony_Soprano

I really hope that all the individuals boasting that they "stand with Ukraine" are the first ones to be drafted. Same goes for all of those individuals who put that in their social media bios along with the flag of Ukraine. Same for all those with yard signs, car stickers and Ukraine flags flying outside their homes.

Really looking forward to see how long and fervent they "stand with Ukraine." More like curl up in a fetal position and crap their pants faster than Senile Joe in Vatican City when they arrive in Ukraine.

You've gone all in on the ole "crap your pants" thing, as you've used it multiple times recently. I'm recalling, I believe, The Naked and the Dead, and the oft-repeated references to soldiers keeping a "tight ass-hole." So, maybe even professional soldiers have this issue from time to time.

You can try to lie and make it otherwise, but there is bipartisan support for US aid to Ukraine. Should we draft Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell, who also supported the most recent aid package?

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Tony_Soprano

I really hope that all the individuals boasting that they "stand with Ukraine" are the first ones to be drafted. Same goes for all of those individuals who put that in their social media bios along with the flag of Ukraine. Same for all those with yard signs, car stickers and Ukraine flags flying outside their homes.

Really looking forward to see how long and fervent they "stand with Ukraine." More like curl up in a fetal position and crap their pants faster than Senile Joe in Vatican City when they arrive in Ukraine.

Bingo. They should be there already helping them fight, and should be sending them money to aid in their fight.

[Burghophilia]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Bingo. They should be there already helping them fight, and should be sending them money to aid in their fight.

Why should we be sending money over to fight? That seems just ridiculous? Our tax dollars are supporting this -- the "altruism" (if you believe in that concept or in the morality of this particular fight) is secondary -- this is in the US national interest and a bipartisan collection of representatives understands this, notwithstanding the fact that a cadre of Far Right, America Firsters, or Trump Apologists or whatever (including, recall, PA's own Scott Perry, recent of asking for a pardon fame; and trying to undermine the DOJ; and pushing bogus videos about Italian satellites changing ballots). So, yep, if you stand with Perry, then you're good to oppose the consensus, US national security position.