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I do remember my grandfather (my mom's dad) was of German heritage. He spoke about his grandfather who ONLY knew German and didn't speak anything else. Then my grandfather's father was bilingual with German and English.
Apparently my Grandfather HAD to go through his Dad for translation to communicate with his grandfather. (Both of them had passed on before I was born - my bilingual great-grandfather and german-only speaking great-great grandfather). My Grandfather also has some story about how after one of the World Wars, some German guy from Germany came to their farm and worked for a few years and then moved on.
Anyways, the entire point being...it seemed during my own youth, there wasn't much immigration occuring so much (born in 1970)...and even now among my generation and a bit older, their is this assumption that ALL people MUST speak 100% english from Day 1 here...(which okay, makes sense).
But, I was just thinking, that probably in my great-grandfathers days, back in the late 1800s, this entire country was probably filled with all kinds of German speakers, French speakers, Swedish speakers, etc. The original ones to emigrate from Europe probably never learned great English during their lifetimes, but their successive generations certainly did.
So sometimes I think back to the late 1800s and imagine what that was like when their was that massive, massive, massive European immigration going on, particularly throughout the East and strongly in the Midwest.
To veer back to Pittsburgh, I am going to boldly predict that it will indeed be rediscovered over the next couple decades. There is really no "last best place" in the West. It is a great place to live, and has plenty of appeal, but for value starting out, I think places like Pittsburgh will get a look and once people do, they will decide to "pioneer" the East, at least in some places where amenities persist and blight is not too severe. So, the untouched may eventually share allure with the forgotten and overlooked.
To get back to this post, before it gets lost, and I never respond to it!
Yes...I wonder about this...
I mean, it seems like as long as their is a Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix and such offering low-priced housing...the mass majority of people seem to have no interest whatsoever in going to a cold climate.
Plus, I think when people start thinking 'East Coast' they look at the expensive coastal cities, and when they think 'Midwest', they start looking at the Minneapolis, Omaha, Madison, etc....and anything with 'Rust Belt' attached to it, instantly equals no jobs and urban decay in the minds of most people.
I think because of all of those factors, Pittsburgh just gets overlooked altogether. To me, that IS the best part of it, that it is overlooked. If the prices were Boston or Seattle prices...and I had to live in the suburbs of Pittsburgh to just be somewhat remotely near it, then it would quickly be crossed off the list.
It is funny though, because if you say to anyone, 'Yeah, I'm interested in possibly living in Pittsburgh someday'...and the quick response would be WHY? Even thinking about it now, and knowing what I know about Pittsburgh now, I would probably still say WHY to someone who told me that.
Whereas if someone said, 'Yeah, I'd like to live in Portland', I would know exactly why right away, and no one would question it.
Good points, but the sunbelt, west coast climate thing has been done. Not saying many, many more will not head west, but they might find it is not all it was cracked up to be. I agree that a good part of the appeal of Pittsburgh is that it seems surprisingly nice for such an overlooked place. Whether it could ever be a mecca really depends entirely on how vibrant of an economy it develops. Climate will not be the draw, for sure. But folks do increasingly like green spaces and outdoor rec., and it seems to hold its own there. Not to mention the cultural district, which is unusually rich for a midsized city.
Good points, but the sunbelt, west coast climate thing has been done. Not saying many, many more will not head west, but they might find it is not all it was cracked up to be. I agree that a good part of the appeal of Pittsburgh is that it seems surprisingly nice for such an overlooked place. Whether it could ever be a mecca really depends entirely on how vibrant of an economy it develops. Climate will not be the draw, for sure. But folks do increasingly like green spaces and outdoor rec., and it seems to hold its own there. Not to mention the cultural district, which is unusually rich for a midsized city.
I agree with the days are nearing an end for the big influx to the "sunbelt". What I never understood, most of those jobs created in the sunbelt, weren't exactly career type jobs. Mostly service jobs to service all the retiree's that were moving there.
I know places like ATL had more "real" jobs. But when you start talking about Vegas and Phoenix or Florida, you're talking about service jobs.
Now the west coast is different. Cali has (pre-recession) a lot of high paying jobs.
Pittsburgh will never be a mecca. Atleast not in the lifetime of anybody posting on here. The housing stock, for the most part, is beyond repair. Too many "small" houses that need to be completely gutted. Plus, Americans are now accustomed to having bigger kitchens, bathrooms, closet space etc that most Pittsburgh homes just can't offer.
Now, if the majority of Pittsburgh looked like the East End does (Shadyside and Sq hill), I think it could and would become a mecca. Being a bigshot (having a good education and well paying job with the title) in Pittsburgh, means being a big fish in a small pond. Cities like Seattle, San Fran, ATL etc you'd fit right in. But in Pittsburgh?
Cities like Pittsburgh have to exist though. Working class people need a city that ain't overrun with professionals, that will eventually price them out of the city. Imagine if all of Pittsburgh looked like Shadyside, and was priced accordingly. Pittsburgh wouldn't be offordable to most of it's population.
Pittsburgh will never be a mecca. Atleast not in the lifetime of anybody posting on here. The housing stock, for the most part, is beyond repair. Too many "small" houses that need to be completely gutted. Plus, Americans are now accustomed to having bigger kitchens, bathrooms, closet space etc that most Pittsburgh homes just can't offer.
I think that is true for the most part. Most Americans actually want shiny new and tons of space between each other.
There is a niche market in there of people who actually prefer the dense, pedestrian-friendly, etc. For those people, the ones of modest means, the big cities that provide that atmosphere, don't provide the affordability. So Pittsburgh could strongly appeal to those types.
For the mass majority of Americans, they actually DO want their cars and suburbs and such, DESPITE that to me, the suburbs look overwhelmingly horrible....the fact that almost all growth has been occuring in the form of ever-expanding suburbs seems to imply that there is an overwhelmingly strong demand for that.
I am equally surprised when I read people wanting to move to Pittsburgh and looking for the best suburb. It seems to 'defeat the purpose' of living in Pittsburgh altogether.
All that being said, their are 'gentrifiers' out there, and 'urban enthusiasts', and I think most of them are currently satisyfied trying to 'reclaim' the Washington DC's, the wherever else places...and those same people, who don't want to overly compromise their own personal safety as they have kids, etc., but don't want to lose that urban environment, might be the ones heading to Pittsburgh someday. I don't think they'll come from the West Coast or the South though...most likely from the East Coast, or possibly San Francisco.
I do follow the Detroit forum occassionally, and amazed at how many random posters (almost always from someone who has never set foot in Detroit) inquiring about getting their $5,000 house they read about on the news to resettle and gentrify a city that I personally (and nearly everyone from MI) find 'beyond the point of no return'.
I think that is true for the most part. Most Americans actually want shiny new and tons of space between each other.
There is a niche market in there of people who actually prefer the dense, pedestrian-friendly, etc. For those people, the ones of modest means, the big cities that provide that atmosphere, don't provide the affordability. So Pittsburgh could strongly appeal to those types.
For the mass majority of Americans, they actually DO want their cars and suburbs and such, DESPITE that to me, the suburbs look overwhelmingly horrible....the fact that almost all growth has been occuring in the form of ever-expanding suburbs seems to imply that there is an overwhelmingly strong demand for that.
I am equally surprised when I read people wanting to move to Pittsburgh and looking for the best suburb. It seems to 'defeat the purpose' of living in Pittsburgh altogether.
All that being said, their are 'gentrifiers' out there, and 'urban enthusiasts', and I think most of them are currently satisyfied trying to 'reclaim' the Washington DC's, the wherever else places...and those same people, who don't want to overly compromise their own personal safety as they have kids, etc., but don't want to lose that urban environment, might be the ones heading to Pittsburgh someday. I don't think they'll come from the West Coast or the South though...most likely from the East Coast, or possibly San Francisco.
I do follow the Detroit forum occassionally, and amazed at how many random posters (almost always from someone who has never set foot in Detroit) inquiring about getting their $5,000 house they read about on the news to resettle and gentrify a city that I personally (and nearly everyone from MI) find 'beyond the point of no return'.
Ya, I'm a city person too who dislikes most suburbs. Atlthough Chicago and NYC among others, have some nice ones that are very walkable and have a lot of character as well.
The problem with Pittsburgh though, is that a lot of it's housing stock is so small. Actually, the entire state of Pa is like this. Philly does have some decent sized rowhouses though. A lot of them are 3 stories instead of 2, and they're deeper. How many people (non-Pittsburgh'ers) would want to raise a family in a Lawerenceville or Bloomfield rowhouse?
Anything nice in Pittsburgh, with good size, ain't cheap. And when I say "nice", I mean what most people in America would consider to be nice and have decent size. Of couse most homes in Shadyside or Sq Hill would pass, or the rowhouses on the Mexican War Streets. How about Spring Garden though? It looks like that neighborhood was taking out of the movie "Deliverence"....
NYC home prices are beyond crazy. But most their homes were built much BIGGER than your avg Pittsburgh home. How many rowhouses in Pittsburgh could compare to the size of a Mannhattan or Brooklyn brownstone? Get my point? Most of the houses in Pittsburgh just ain't worth the gut job that they need. And besides the small sq footage, most lack ANY 'curb appeal' what-so-ever. Way too many ugly awnings and aluminum siding neighborhoods in Pittsburgh.
Ya, I'm a city person too who dislikes most suburbs. Atlthough Chicago and NYC among others, have some nice ones that are very walkable and have a lot of character as well.
The problem with Pittsburgh though, is that a lot of it's housing stock is so small. Actually, the entire state of Pa is like this. Philly does have some decent sized rowhouses though. A lot of them are 3 stories instead of 2, and they're deeper. How many people (non-Pittsburgh'ers) would want to raise a family in a Lawerenceville or Bloomfield rowhouse?
Anything nice in Pittsburgh, with good size, ain't cheap. And when I say "nice", I mean what most people in America would consider to be nice and have decent size. Of couse most homes in Shadyside or Sq Hill would pass, or the rowhouses on the Mexican War Streets. How about Spring Garden though? It looks like that neighborhood was taking out of the movie "Deliverence"....
NYC home prices are beyond crazy. But most their homes were built much BIGGER than your avg Pittsburgh home. How many rowhouses in Pittsburgh could compare to the size of a Mannhattan or Brooklyn brownstone? Get my point? Most of the houses in Pittsburgh just ain't worth the gut job that they need. And besides the small sq footage, most lack ANY 'curb appeal' what-so-ever. Way too many ugly awnings and aluminum siding neighborhoods in Pittsburgh.
I think I am going to have to disagree. I live out west, where a $1500 sf home can easily cost $400k in towns with $12/hour jobs. Don't ask me to explain why. I don't know why folks pay so much... I live in a 900sf home that I paid $210k for in 2003. I have seen many homes in Pittsburgh for $200k that could not be found around here for under $800k. I would love a 1500-2000 sf home, awnings or not, in a nice neighborhood, and I see plenty in Pittsburgh. Also the houses out here are often wretched "ranch homes" with little or no character. So, I am no expert, but it does not seem like the Pittsburgh housing stock is too terrible, at least from my view.
I think I am going to have to disagree. I live out west, where a $1500 sf home can easily cost $400k in towns with $12/hour jobs. Don't ask me to explain why. I don't know why folks pay so much... I live in a 900sf home that I paid $210k for in 2003. I have seen many homes in Pittsburgh for $200k that could not be found around here for under $800k. I would love a 1500-2000 sf home, awnings or not, in a nice neighborhood, and I see plenty in Pittsburgh. Also the houses out here are often wretched "ranch homes" with little or no character. So, I am no expert, but it does not seem like the Pittsburgh housing stock is too terrible, at least from my view.
Someone there is making money where you live. You can't buy homes worth 400K with a $12 hr job.
I was born and raised in the city of Pittsburgh, so my opinon is valid. Trust me, citydata posters can post all the beautiful housing stock they want, being there in person is a lot different. Pittsburgh has very few neighborhoods that are easy on the eyes. Sometimes seeing them in person, or even living there for awhile might change your mind.
The desert to me always looks beautiful. That is, for about a month or so. Then, it starts looking uglier day by day. I know this might sound strange to you what I'm saying, but it's the truth.
When you go from one extreme to another, sometimes it takes awhile before your first impression wears off. Pittsburgh shows well on film, especially from Mt. Washington at night. But overall, Pittsburgh is pretty run-down looking. The east end is nice, along with small pockets thru out the city.
How many people (non-Pittsburgh'ers) would want to raise a family in a Lawerenceville or Bloomfield rowhouse?
Actually, I would say non-Pittsburghers would be MORE likely to want to raise a family there, particularly Lawrenceville (say, anything on the downtown side of Allegheny Cemetery; I know some of it is still not great). Long-time Pittsburghers do not have a high opinion of these areas. It's tricky. Sometimes the local opinion is spot on, and in some cases it is lagging the reality. And some people are better in tune with things than others. Most of what's suggested on this forum is pretty thoughtful, but if you asked around Pittsburgh you'd hear plenty of negative opinions from people who fled to the suburbs a decade or two ago and haven't seen these areas in years.
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