Pitt ranked 4th most literate (Pittsburgh, Franklin: health insurance, houses, unemployment benefits)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Tombstoner

Sincere question: in what ways would having the old industrial base "back" be an improvement over the current situation?

Pure and simple, good paying jobs for those less educated.

[Geeo]

There is still a demand for jobs in the trades (at least before the recession hit). Not everyone has to go to college. I remember a few years ago there was a lack of qualified people in the trades because everyone thought those jobs were gone, so nobody went to school for them. It caused a shortage as the older people started to retire. The problem may be that the number of those jobs has declined because productivity has increased through technology and it takes fewer people to do the same work now. I would encourage anyone with an interest to go for a career in the skilled trades.

[onwardandupward]

I'll second that. As someone who has been heavily using the services of skilled trade workers in renovating my house, these workers can make a nice living wage - often more than one can make in my own field of research and academia. Granted, there are layoffs at times if you're in the union, and slow times if you're on your own, but if you're good and reliable, there's a demand for your services.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by Geeo

There is still a demand for jobs in the trades (at least before the recession hit). Not everyone has to go to college. I remember a few years ago there was a lack of qualified people in the trades because everyone thought those jobs were gone, so nobody went to school for them. It caused a shortage as the older people started to retire. The problem may be that the number of those jobs has declined because productivity has increased through technology and it takes fewer people to do the same work now. I would encourage anyone with an interest to go for a career in the skilled trades.

SO TRUE!

I think my generation was taught to get ANY college degree from a university, and highly discouraged from technical or training schools.

It turns out that nurses make bucketloads...and any kind of skilled trade (electrians, etc.) do as well - and can work anywhere.

[AaronPGH]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I'd gladly put up with more "yinzers" if we had our industrial base back in this area.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuug that! I like the position Pittsburgh has put itself in over the past decade. We're set up now as a knowledge city, and it's just going to (hopefully!) snowball from here out. We may have some desolate neighborhoods that used to be great, but those will come back over time if the city keeps on it's trajectory.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by AaronClark

We may have some desolate neighborhoods that used to be great, but those will come back over time if the city keeps on it's trajectory.

You're dreaming: Braddock, Swissvale, East Pittsburgh, Sheraden, Crafton, Pitcairn, Wilmerding, just to name a few. Never happen.

[BrianTH]

The bottomline is that technology has killed the mass-employment model in industrial production, so you might as well be asking for the demise of the automobile so that all those good stableboy and coachmen jobs could come back.

On a more positive note, those jobs weren't good jobs because of something inherent to making big stuff--indeed, they weren't always good jobs throughout industrial history. But they became good jobs because various policies encouraged an economic system which distributed income and security farther down the ladder. Those policies were then systematically dismantled, but the fact that mass-employment industrial production was dying off at roughly the same time is actually mostly just a coincidence. So there is no reason we couldn't restore some of those policies, or replace them with new policies to a similar (maybe better) effect, and recreate the same favorable economic situation with a different mix of jobs.

[BrianTH]

Oh, and Swissvale isn't so bad. Moreover, we were just talking about how the County is in the process of redeveloping the Carrie Furnace site, which is partially in Swissvale, along the same lines as the South Side Works.

That said--Swissvale is close in. I think successful redevelopment of the close-in neighborhoods is quite likely to continue, even the ones people currently find unimaginable. I am a little less sanguine about some of the farther-flung former mill towns.

[Copanut]

I question whether any of you ever worked in a mill, furnace, or warehouse, which were paying jobs for those not inclined towards education. Granted, too many easy jobs handed out, but both the unions and management made sure their own were protected. I still say this country could still have its manufacturing/industrial base if common sense had prevailed.

What was I thinking?

[Geeo]

But even the jobs that people have in steel mills today are not as labor-intensive as they used to be. In Franklin Toker's new book, "Pittsburgh: A New Portrait," he mentions that US Steel's Edgar Thomson plant in Braddock produces more steel now than it ever has with a fraction of the labor force. And even those jobs require technical education. You just can't graduate high school and get an industrial job anymore without some vocational education.