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But is it necessary? Did these men die for the right reasons, or the wrong reasons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
Its unfortunate that our Military is not allowed to fight to win.
I've heard this argument before but it makes no sense. Killing more innocent civilians is not "fighting to win", and if that is what using more force will result in then thats what you are arguing in favor of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
I wonder though. How many died in LA or Chicago last week?
Some might argue that Afganistan is more safe than some of our cities.
So find the most crime ridden city in America and then compare its homicide rate for the week to these 17 preventable deaths?
But is it necessary? Did these men die for the right reasons, or the wrong reasons?
I've heard this argument before but it makes no sense. Killing more innocent civilians is not "fighting to win", and if that is what using more force will result in then thats what you are arguing in favor of.
So find the most crime ridden city in America and then compare its homicide rate for the week to these 17 preventable deaths?
A most strange comparison.
The right reasons? Whose reasons? The politicians call the shots and it has always been that way. I served and was proud to do so. I got out when Clinton won. I didn't want to serve under anyone who hated the military.
I wouldn't have served under GWB either.
So whose reasons makes it right?
Fight to win. I think we should have learned a lesson in Vietnam. If you must go to war then fight to win. Otherwise don't go to war you are simply wasting lives.
The comparison.
While people faint and quiver at the loss of 17 good men, and I stress good men, they seem to forget that life in some of our big cities is far worse. In 9 years of 2 wars we have loss far less soldiers to hostile fire than we have civilians in this country to criminals. Perhaps instead of our gov focusing on nation building and saving everyone else we should be focused on saving ourselves.
The right reasons? Whose reasons? The politicians call the shots and it has always been that way. I served and was proud to do so. I got out when Clinton won. I didn't want to serve under anyone who hated the military.
I wouldn't have served under GWB either.
So whose reasons makes it right?
Fight to win. I think we should have learned a lesson in Vietnam. If you must go to war then fight to win. Otherwise don't go to war you are simply wasting lives.
The comparison.
While people faint and quiver at the loss of 17 good men, and I stress good men, they seem to forget that life in some of our big cities is far worse. In 9 years of 2 wars we have loss far less soldiers to hostile fire than we have civilians in this country to criminals. Perhaps instead of our gov focusing on nation building and saving everyone else we should be focused on saving ourselves.
So then we can ultimately "win" in Afghanistan if we fight some other way?
What other way should we fight in Afghanistan in order to win, and what lessons from Vietnam need to be applied to Afghanistan in order to secure a "victory"?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01
While people faint and quiver at the loss of 17 good men, and I stress good men, they seem to forget that life in some of our big cities is far worse. In 9 years of 2 wars we have loss far less soldiers to hostile fire than we have civilians in this country to criminals. Perhaps instead of our gov focusing on nation building and saving everyone else we should be focused on saving ourselves.
So then we can ultimately "win" in Afghanistan if we fight some other way?
What other way should we fight in Afghanistan in order to win, and what lessons from Vietnam need to be applied to Afghanistan in order to secure a "victory"?
First ask the right question.
1. Do we belong in Afghanistan?
2.Is Afghanistan worth the loss of even 1 American life?
A solid NO to both questions.
Lessons learned in Vietnam.
Let the Generals fight the war the way they know how.
How do you win the hearts and minds of people you have just bombed?
My view point is simple. Unless we can show beyond a doubt that we need to take military then there is no justification for said action.
Iraq? LOL what a waste.
Afghanistan. We toppled their gov and then stayed to force our own form of gov upon them. That never works when dealing with people of trible mentality and who have no sense of a National identity.
I'm wondering, from a strategic viewpoint, how the Generals were not allowed to fight the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. Or even Vietnam.
Oh my you need to read more history.
LBJ: " We don't bomb an outhouse lesson I say so"
He had generals draw up a list of targets. LBJ started with the leats important and worked his way up. We lost the initative and allowed the North to build up huge inventories of weapons as a result.
Oh my you need to read more history.
LBJ: " We don't bomb an outhouse lesson I say so"
He had generals draw up a list of targets. LBJ started with the leats important and worked his way up. We lost the initative and allowed the North to build up huge inventories of weapons as a result.
I read lots of history, and it allows me to better frame the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.
Just once I would like an answer to those who say "We need to let our Generals fight this war they want to" and we have done this. You need more troops, more funding, and more rockets and missiles, you get 'em.
But none of those things win wars. That is the history I've learned.
Many of those people in important positions who help shape foreign policy are ignorant of history, or ignore its lessons.
Hope you don't mind my adding these 3 brave Canadian soldiers to your list odanny.
Master Cpl. Kristal Giesebrecht > Ontario
Pvt. Andrew Miller > Ontario
Sgt. James MacNeil > Nova Scotia
R.I.P. to these soldiers and peace to their loved ones.
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