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A big factor that is not taken into account is that the students who are going to school in the poorest neighborhoods are NOT receiving the same education as the middle class and wealthy students are receiving. Often, the teachers who go to those schools weren't at the top of their class and it's a place where prinicipals "on punishment" go when they've screwed up at another school. In addition to that, the books are often outdated.
If students go to a school where the teachers couldn't care less, what is the point? Even valedictorian of the poor school hasn't had the same education that the average middle class/wealthy student has.
Often racial segregation is this country has been replaced by economic segregation. If you are praticing economic segregation against a group of people who have been historically been denied economic opportunity based on race you are going to get legal de facto racial segregation which creates the educational inequalities that you've mentioned.
Last edited by JazzyTallGuy; 08-23-2010 at 09:30 AM..
Call me a socialist, but I think education should be free or at least cost the same (but little) for everybody. When you have public schools and private schools and elite schools and trash schools and what not, that is the foundation for great inequality in the future.
Call me a socialist, but I think education should be free or at least cost the same (but little) for everybody. When you have public schools and private schools and elite schools and trash schools and what not, that is the foundation for great inequality in the future.
I would call you naive. Public Education is free, hence the name. This 47% statistic is not happening at private schools.
Were you to nationalize private schools, no more likely to happen in the US than it is in Germany, then you would simply distribute the 47% statistic differently as there would be more public schools. If you doubt that, then ask yourself what would happen if you took that 47% and stuck those kids in a good private school. The 47% would undoubtedly stay the same and would probably increase if it meant their classmates who graduated were now subject to such rigorous standards.
Everybody throws up their hands and yammers about facilities, teachers and the like. Its the STUDENTS and their FAMILIES. They are not valueing education.
I would call you naive. Public Education is free, hence the name. This 47% statistic is not happening at private schools.
Were you to nationalize private schools, no more likely to happen in the US than it is in Germany, then you would simply distribute the 47% statistic differently as there would be more public schools. If you doubt that, then ask yourself what would happen if you took that 47% and stuck those kids in a good private school. The 47% would undoubtedly stay the same and would probably increase if it meant their classmates who graduated were now subject to such rigorous standards.
Everybody throws up their hands and yammers about facilities, teachers and the like. Its the STUDENTS and their FAMILIES. They are not valueing education.
Hm, in Germany there is not much to nationalize. Only about 5% of students attend private high schools, and about half of the schools these 5% attend are grammar schools, which are no better than public ones anyway (actually studies say that public schools are better than private ones).
The reason is simple: private schools are very strictly regulated by the state, they have to teach the same things, adhere to all the rules there are for public schools etc. Except for financing they are all but public schools. It is mainly rich people who send their kids to those few private schools, paying for the illusion their kids will benefit from it. At least in Germany they don't. Actually, when you have a diploma from a private high school you may face problems when applying to a university as the overwhelming majority of them are public (only 0.9% of university students attend private colleges, again mostly MBA factories).
Hm, in Germany there is not much to nationalize. Only about 5% of students attend private high schools, and about half of the schools these 5% attend are grammar schools, which are no better than public ones anyway (actually studies say that public schools are better than private ones).
The reason is simple: private schools are very strictly regulated by the state, they have to teach the same things, adhere to all the rules there are for public schools etc. Except for financing they are all but public schools. It is mainly rich people who send their kids to those few private schools, paying for the illusion their kids will benefit from it. At least in Germany they don't. Actually, when you have a diploma from a private high school you may face problems when applying to a university as the overwhelming majority of them are public (only 0.9% of university students attend private colleges, again mostly MBA factories).
Yes I know. I studied at Karl-Ruprechts in Heidelberg. Koennen Sie nicht erinnen? Anyway, if the two school types are the same in Germany, I will take your word for it. Nonetheless, if parents want to utilize those private schools, that is their choice. My issues with the German education systems, as much as they are "my issues"- which they are not- have more to do with other things. Great subject for another time.
In the USA, there are outstanding public schools and there are horrid ones. There are outstanding private schools and I reckon, but have no evidence, that there are also mediocre private schools.
I would call you naive. Public Education is free, hence the name. This 47% statistic is not happening at private schools.
Were you to nationalize private schools, no more likely to happen in the US than it is in Germany, then you would simply distribute the 47% statistic differently as there would be more public schools. If you doubt that, then ask yourself what would happen if you took that 47% and stuck those kids in a good private school. The 47% would undoubtedly stay the same and would probably increase if it meant their classmates who graduated were now subject to such rigorous standards.
Everybody throws up their hands and yammers about facilities, teachers and the like. Its the STUDENTS and their FAMILIES. They are not valueing education.
Your premise is totally bogus. There have been schools like the Harlem Project in New York and other schools in neighborhoods with poor Black Americans around the country that have instituted rigorous academic programs along with high standards of conduct and discipline. The kids in these schools do as well or in many cases better than the national average of ALL STUDENTS in terms of reading and math competency and standardized test.
Not only is your premise wrong it's racist as hell. You're implying that these kids won't do better with better teachers and educational resources.
Your premise is totally bogus. There have been schools like the Harlem Project in New York and other schools in neighborhoods with poor Black Americans around the country that have instituted rigorous academic programs along with high standards of conduct and discipline. The kids in these schools do as well or in many cases better than the national average of ALL STUDENTS in terms of reading and math competency and standardized test.
Not only is your premise wrong it's racist as hell. You're implying that these kids won't do better with better teachers and educational resources.
Please. If you have nothing better than the race card, do not answer my posts.
One little problem I have with these types of media reports on Black males is that often they don't do a good job of profiling exactly which Black males they are referring to. They seem to just say "Black males" leaving us with the impression that it's all young Black males who are falling behind. We need to know exactly which types of Black males that are in trouble so that we can help them based on the issues they have.
if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen!
I think not.
In reality, you are backing up what I said. I have heard of this project in Harlem. Obviously these are not the subject of this thread i.e. not part of the 47%.
100 - 47 = 53
53% of black males are graduating. Within that range, you probably have everything from the fella who slipped on through to future PhDs at M.I.T. Just like everyone else.
In case you did not notice, and I take it you certainly did not notice, nobody is claiming all (100%) blacks did not or cannot graduate.
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Anyway, if the two school types are the same in Germany, I will take your word for it. Nonetheless, if parents want to utilize those private schools, that is their choice. My issues with the German education systems, as much as they are "my issues"- which they are not- have more to do with other things. Great subject for another time.
