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Well, I had to do neither with Nigel Ferguson, nor with hooligans, fortunately, but instead with normal people who were realistic enough to accept that Britain is completely intertwined with the rest of Europe. And that is not even a new situation, the Brits had a joint kingdom with Germany's Hanover for some time. Ever since Britain lost its colonies, its economy has increasingly depended on Europe.
Definitely (especially since certain events in 1940 proved that Britain is irrevocably linked to the Continent), and the Tories used to recognize this fact, from Churchill to Ted Heath. Macmillan wanted to join the Common Market and under Heath the UK finally did. Thatcher's Euroskepticism was a major departure from her predecessors of her own party. IMO Cameron's not as much of a Euroskeptic as Thatcher was.
However, "Little Englandism" still lives despite the economic crisis being the latest blow to "Atlanticism". Scotland OTOH was built on trade and relations with the continent, and as I said before most Scots have no problems with considering themselves Europeans. Ironically, the more "Atlanticist" government of New Labour was disproportunately made up of Scots (my SNP friends described Blair, Brown, etc. as "traitor Scots").
Definitely (especially since certain events in 1940 proved that Britain is irrevocably linked to the Continent), and the Tories used to recognize this fact, from Churchill to Ted Heath. Macmillan wanted to join the Common Market and under Heath the UK finally did. Thatcher's Euroskepticism was a major departure from her predecessors of her own party. IMO Cameron's not as much of a Euroskeptic as Thatcher was.
However, "Little Englandism" still lives despite the economic crisis being the latest blow to "Atlanticism". Scotland OTOH was built on trade and relations with the continent, and as I said before most Scots have no problems with considering themselves Europeans. Ironically, the more "Atlanticist" government of New Labour was disproportunately made up of Scots (my SNP friends described Blair, Brown, etc. as "traitor Scots").
Little England, loved that series The only Shcot I know ish Sean Connery
Little England, loved that series The only Shcot I know ish Sean Connery
"League of Gentlemen" was a much funnier series about "townies" than "Little Britain" ; the Vicky Pollard character was one of the most annoying characters in the history of TV....
Connery's a member of the SNP. In fact, he's said for years that he wants to be the first president of an independent Scotland, however, his age and health and simple political realities dictate that he'll never realize his dream.
The study is 10 years old. The tables have turned since then.
Here is a recent (2006) study on kids at 15 - it's based on reading, maths and science.
Quote:
These tables show student performance on the reading, scientific and mathematical literacy scales, mean score, measured in 2006, and reported in OECD's Education at a Glance 2009.
Students were tested at age 15 and therefore approaching the end of compulsory schooling.
There is no score for the US for reading.
For maths they rank 27th out of 33
For science they rank 22nd out of 33
These kids are your future and will have to compete with the likes of the Japanese and Koreans whose kids seem to do really well in most of the subjects covered. So does Canada.
I'm from the UK and we absolutely slate our education system but...
13th out of 33 for reading
19th out of 33 for maths
9th out of 33 for science.
If I had to chose a country in which to educate my kids it would probably be Canada.
And why all the hoo ha about university or college - we have a situation in the UK where so many kids go to university - you almost need a degree to flip burgers - some of the degrees are useless - we seem to be producing a generation of kids with very high expectations for jobs and money after university and it just won't happen for most of them. The US may be different and all of your degree courses may be useful and lead to good jobs and high wages.
The recent budget cuts have meant this year university places are much harder to get - not really a bad thing imho.
And why all the hoo ha about university or college - we have a situation in the UK where so many kids go to university - you almost need a degree to flip burgers - some of the degrees are useless - we seem to be producing a generation of kids with very high expectations for jobs and money after university and it just won't happen for most of them. The US may be different and all of your degree courses may be useful and lead to good jobs and high wages.
Well US is as socialist as Germany and France.
The founding fathers wanted US to be like Switzerland... so you better emulate Switzerland as your founding fathers wanted! You have to give up some of your social welfare for that! You don't get 99 weeks of unemployment here in Switzerland!
I don't understand why the Americans have a fetish for the northern European countries. The life there isn't as great as some magazines want to picture it. I spent 6 months in Denmark when I was in college and everything was awful (I live in Switzerland but I was born in near München). Everything from food to housing to social life and anything in between is a disaster there. And the school ain't very good there. Even tough I believe is on par with the American education (which except a few universities (10-20) is worst than in most Europe... we have employed 2 GATech graduates at one of our factories in US and they were some of the worst employees I've seen until now... now they got better after a lot of training).
Southern Europe is a great place for vacation but that's all. I like Central and Eastern Europe (but the goverment in most of the Eastern European countries is a mess).
If US wants to emulate some successful European countries they have to chose between Switzerland and Austria (and Germany but I'm not so sure about that....)
Last edited by MilkDrinker; 08-28-2010 at 02:37 PM..
Here is a recent (2006) study on kids at 15 - it's based on reading, maths and science.
There is no score for the US for reading.
For maths they rank 27th out of 33
For science they rank 22nd out of 33
These kids are your future and will have to compete with the likes of the Japanese and Koreans whose kids seem to do really well in most of the subjects covered. So does Canada.
I'm from the UK and we absolutely slate our education system but...
13th out of 33 for reading
19th out of 33 for maths
9th out of 33 for science.
If I had to chose a country in which to educate my kids it would probably be Canada.
And why all the hoo ha about university or college - we have a situation in the UK where so many kids go to university - you almost need a degree to flip burgers - some of the degrees are useless - we seem to be producing a generation of kids with very high expectations for jobs and money after university and it just won't happen for most of them. The US may be different and all of your degree courses may be useful and lead to good jobs and high wages.
The recent budget cuts have meant this year university places are much harder to get - not really a bad thing imho.
Those results are average values. The problem is that in the US high schools are very diverse. There are excellent ones en par with East Asian ones, but also a lot of very bad ones, which drag down the average. In Germany and other countries you won't find such great differences. Even the worst high schools there produce students that would be considered average students in the US.
Well US is as socialist as Germany and France.
The founding fathers wanted US to be like Switzerland...
France and the various German states were not "socialist" at the time of the American Revolution.
Quote:
so you better emulate Switzerland as your founding fathers wanted! You have to give up some of your social welfare for that! You don't get 99 weeks of unemployment here in Switzerland!
Depends on the canton ; Switzerland being one of the world's most decentralized countries means that policies vary between cantons a great deal.
AFAIK pretty much ALL Western and Central European countries have better educational systems than the US (the only exceptions being the UK and the schools in the banlieue ghettos of France - and in Britain's case it decided to adapt the US educational system of "comprehensives" in the '70s and discard the previous, superior system produced by the post-WW2 educational reforms, although I doubt too many Britons miss "secondary moderns")
I know that France and Germany weren't socialist at the time of the American Revolution... I compared US with the present countries and I wanted to say that the American founding fathers wanted US to function like Swizerland, with small central government and having states take care of their own business. It was like that in the begining, but little by little the federal government took over and now you have a huge government. Happy Fourth, Switzerland! : Considering the
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The only Shcot I know ish Sean Connery 
