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It's impossible to have any kind of debate when it's opened with a falsehood from the start.
People who are Pro-Choice are NOT "Anti-Life". And not all Anti-Abortion adherents are "Pro-Life", as they are frequently in favor of the death penalty. They only make the distinction based on thinking that the self-sustaining entity is undeserving of the right to life based on behavior, whereas the cells of the fully reliant entity haven't had a chance to do bad things yet.
Let's take one giant Catholic step back; Humanae Vitae "any action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act [sexual intercourse], or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is against God's law.
If we establish the moral starting point as take the absolutist put forth in Humanae Vitae, any act which prevents the natural joining of sperm and egg, one has denied the sanctity of life. If one doesn't begin at that point then the choice for ending human life becomes rather arbitrary and a matter of personal conscience.
What about those of us who do not share your faith and for whom the Humanae Vitae is, essentially, nonsense? Assume we get to choose arbitrary and a matter of personal conscience??
It's impossible to have any kind of debate when it's opened with a falsehood from the start.
People who are Pro-Choice are NOT "Anti-Life". . .
No one said "anti-life" but pro abortion, pro murder of the unborn would be more descriptive.
Pro-life is another euphamism to avoid the truth. An attempt to clean it up, make it more palatable. I always wonder to whom? Themselves perhaps???
Or someone with more than a 3rd grade education, first year law students, or any of the Justices of the Supreme Court... but I digress.
Your remark shows exactly how widespread the classican grecoroman fascist culture is to the "highest" segments of American politicians...
They praise the Athenian "democracy",
while they should know that only men ( = homosexuals & paedophiles) voted,
no women,no immigrants,no slaves ( = 80% of the population)
vote or had any rights...
Ancient history...but the classical fascists present it as
an ..."ideal" to... "inspire " modern Americans......
It's impossible to have any kind of debate when it's opened with a falsehood from the start.
People who are Pro-Choice are NOT "Anti-Life". And not all Anti-Abortion adherents are "Pro-Life", as they are frequently in favor of the death penalty. They only make the distinction based on thinking that the self-sustaining entity is undeserving of the right to life based on behavior, whereas the cells of the fully reliant entity haven't had a chance to do bad things yet.
By the very term pro choice means you are in favor of using abortion. If you are in favor of abortion you are by definition pro abortion. So rather than hid behind the comfortable term pro choice us what it means pro abortion
By the very term pro choice means you are in favor of using abortion. If you are in favor of abortion you are by definition pro abortion. So rather than hid behind the comfortable term pro choice us what it means pro abortion
Exactly. Pro choice sounds so much better than pro-abortion. Hiding behind euphamisms.
I would respect them more if they admitted it.
Bob: I do
Roy: I do!
Sarah: Hold it!!!!! Stop this travesty of our constitution!
Bob: What?
Sarah: This is too much! This is against what the founding fathers believed!
Roy: Is that??
Bob: Oh #$%%^
Sarah: Yep! You betcha!!!!
Roy: constitution?
Bob: I can't believe this
Sarah: You hopey changey communist terrorists!
Roy: hopey changey?
Sarah: Todd!
Todd: yea hun?
Sarah: escort these anti-american terrorists out of here!
Todd: you heard the lady, get movin' ...
Bob: Roy????
Roy: What? we're married, Bob! We said our vows, we're as married as those 2 knuckleheads. The great state of Iowa says so!
<big whoosh of wind> *poof*
Bob: where'd they go?
Roy: back from wence they came, Bob.
Bob: whew! ok, let's go adopt a baby!
I am interested in created a thread about abortion and have a debate about it, but the debate I want to have, I want it to be in the form of a socratic dialog. Basically what that consists of is a discussion between 2 (or more people) where one person continues to question the answers given by the other. I have already started it I believe and would just be interested in seeing it continue, as it is a bit difficult to argue on both sides of the same coin by yourself for very long. So if we can keep the format of this debate in a question/answer/question about the answer type that would be great. Looking forward to seeing how this works out. Also to keep things structured I have created names for the "characters in the debate" per say. Bob is asking the questions and is pro-choice and roy is answering them and being questioned and is pro-life. Here is what I have started:
Bob: Why should abortion be made illegal?
Roy: Because through the act of abortion a human life is killed.
Bob: A human life isn’t being killed though it is just an embryo, do you believe and embryo is a human life?
Roy: Yes.
Bob: What makes it a human life?
Roy: A human life is the exact same thing as an adult human being, the only difference being the stage of development.
Bob: But an embryo is not the exact same thing as an adult human being, it does not contain developed organs and most importantly it does not contain a developed nervous systems so it would be unable to feel pain or pleasure or have thoughts. While it may eventually grow into a human being, it is not when it is aborted and therefore killing it would not be considered murder because it does not have the rights given to humans. Do you now have another reason behind why abortion should be made illegal?
Roy: Abortion should be made illegal because it allows women and men (the father) an opportunity to have an easy way out and not take responsibility for their actions.
Bob:
It's Bob's turn to question Roy's answer. Enjoy.
Bob: What if they simply wanted to get laid and never intended to have children?
Roy: More to the point Bob, nature has determined that both the female who was inseminated by a male and the male who inseminated the female are responsible for the minimal care of the life they created as a result of their actions. It is an implied contract with nature that they entered into by virtue of their actions.
Bob: This contract with nature is inadmissible in court, and furthermore, Roe V. Wade is the law of the land. In the United States a woman has control over her own body and the legal right to terminate a pregnancy for any reason during the first two trimesters and even later if two doctors agree the pregnancy is harmful to her health.
Roy: Everything the Nazis did was legal. Slavery was legal. Obviously we cannot count on governments to do the right thing. The option of an easy way out of an unplanned pregnancy is a pervasive one that has become popular as the moral fog of excuse making and rationalizing has descended on the issue, but we can and should do better as a nation. Already the Dutch have ventured further down the road to moral bankruptcy by legalizing infanticide. Here's a link Bob...Killing Babies, Compassionately | The Weekly Standard. The argument that abortion doesn't lead to infanticide seems to be losing the reality test. The same excuses for abortion apply to infanticide because no logical firewall exists between the two. If Abortion can be rationalized, so can infanticide.
By the very term pro choice means you are in favor of using abortion. If you are in favor of abortion you are by definition pro abortion. So rather than hid behind the comfortable term pro choice us what it means pro abortion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booya
Exactly. Pro choice sounds so much better than pro-abortion. Hiding behind euphamisms.
I would respect them more if they admitted it.
That's just a bunch of garbage. People who believe a woman has a right to choose what happens to her body are not, by default, "Pro-Abortion" -- in fact, many aren't in favor of abortion at all. Pro-Choice and Pro-Abortion are not synonyms.
But the opposite of Pro-Choice is not Pro-Life, as the implication is that Pro-Choice advocates are somehow Anti-Life, which is utterly absurd. None of us are Anti-Life any more than we're Pro-Abortion.
I'd have more respect for your side if you'd quit trying to characterize all of us as murderers who are "pro/for killing babies." When you demonize your opponents from the start, there can never be a reasonable discussion.
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