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So many posts deserving of more than just a single token rep point. Thank you for your clarity, your honesty, your directness. I agree with the statement that uncivilized reaction should not be passively accepted.
Now this is a damned lie ... an outright, blatant lie.
I'm not going to return your insults, calling me a liar, because I think you are just another misinformed person.
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Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Taken out of context, (Quran 8:5 to 8:18) The verses are specific to the battle of Badr (http://www.al-islam.org/history/history/badr.html. - broken link), a key battle in Islamic history.
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Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Taken out of context: Quran (9:1) to (9:13) talks about a treaty that was held between the prophet and the people of Mecca, the orders to fight and to cease are bounded withing the boundaries of the treaty and the conditions that surrounded it, here is the full text:Here (http://www.jannah.org/qurantrans/quran9.html - broken link)
If you knew that and you still took the single verse, then you are trying to deceive your audience, that is not decent nor honest, and is defined as "lying to the people"., if you didn't and you just went to some website and took what was written there without researching it, then you ignorance and bias is your sickness and you need to get over it.
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Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
The word fight includes all kinds of struggle to reach a goal, struggle by word, by funds, by soul and of course by force , the key behind understanding this verse in the right context, and I'm here referring to the authenticated interpretations of the Quran by the most acknowledged scholars, is the condition of people that are being called, for example, in the world of today, where freedom of speech is granted in the west,so using force to ensure freedom of speech and/or belief in such case is not valid from an Islamic perspective, it is considered transgression that is punishable by the laws of Islam itself, because it loses the meaning and the fairness of the message, the fight in such condition is the struggle of words and thoughts, back in these times, with the known transgression of the Roman and the Persian empire against other beliefs, even to other christian sects, and their killing of the Muslim preachers and messengers, made the fight to go up to a physical struggle as a result of physical transgression.
Jizyah is a tax system in the regions that were added to the Muslim state by means of force, a non Muslim pays Jizyah , exempted from which are the poor , the women , the children and in some cases was the whole nonmuslim population in times of hunger or economic hardships either on the state level or on the personal level. the amount was really very low and insignificant, you can review this if you wanted. Muslims in the same state were required to pay the Zakat, which is also a tax that is a percentage of wealth that goes to something like the federal reserve today and it is used for public spending which , in a lot of cases , had non Muslims benefit directly from it , although they were exempted from this tax.
Please also note that and as described in the first point regarding this verse, the concept of Jizyah in today's world is not valid as the means are not physical, all citizens are under a form of constitution that requires everyone to pay taxes, that is even in Muslim majority countries
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Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
That is similar to cursing the disbelievers in the Torah, the verse is the Words of God, there is no call to fight or destroy, It is God's statement.
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Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Same (9:29), the physical fight was specific to that time, under the said conditions, the general order of struggle is explained the same way.
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Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
"So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them (by preaching) with the utmost endeavor, with it (the Quran)"
Strive doesn't imply any violent meaning.
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Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
The verse is a statement by God, telling future to the prophet, regarding the people who showed belief while they were working secretly to demolish the sate, The prophet didn't know about them, but God did know what they were hiding, they were traitors to the constitution of the first Muslim state in Medina, compare to when a us citizen, swears allegiance to the US and then found guilty with plotting against the country he swore allegiance to, the punishment by modern secular constitutions is to execute or imprison for life, and it is widely accepted because it endangers the nations security.
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Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" .
That is correct, in battle fields though, and not in general, generally muslims are ordered by the text of this verse: Quran (60:8) (Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.) and Quran (60:9) (It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah).
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Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"
Refer to the meaning of fight: strive, struggle
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Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
All Abrahamic religions promised this day,Armageddon as in the old testament,but from an Islamic perspective.
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Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'
Means that his victory comes from the fear in his enemies' hearts that is Imposed by God, and not what you are trying to impose as the word Terror of nowadays.
B
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ukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.
Fight as strive against, or it would have been said like" to force people to say....."
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Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."
Funny thing that you didn't run into the definition of the word Jihad even though it is a very famous expression, Jihad is a broader form of struggle, Jihad of the soul is the highest, where you struggle within your own self to forbid it from committing sins,basically it is the challenge by wining which you are granted the satisfaction of God.
Jihad also can mean the word fight as mentioned above.
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Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"
Jihad....
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Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihid died the death of a hypocrite.'"
Here it is meant by the fight to spread the word, as considered if you didn't want to spread the word then means that you don't care " Hypocrite".
I'll stop here because the point is sufficiently made ... but there are HUNDREDS of similar passages in the Quran and Hadith.
These are not the the words of any peaceful God or religion ... these are the maniacal musings of a marauding, blood thirsty murderer wholly unfit for the devotion offered by 1.2 Billion lost souls.
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I tried to point out your points as best as I can, discussion is still open if there is something you cannot get,I cannot understand why are you using slur words , maybe it is part of your culture.
Islam , as the final religion constitutes not a only a practice of worship, but a complete way of life, thorough to every detail in a humans life , so it has teachings for running an individuals life and also of the whole community, the written constitution is the Quran.
The Prophet wasn't only meant to deliver the word of god, but also to lead establish and lead the state , where the constitution will prevail, this is why there are passages in the Quran that talk about procedures to deal with traitors and enemies of the state.
Islam in its nature , is dynamic, means it is not a rigid text, it is open to interpretations and reflections and even philosophy, and this is what makes it fit for every time and place, e.g: there are 4 schools of though to derive rulings from the Quran and the prophets biography and practice.
Islam has transformed the Arab tribes, for Bedouin barbaric people that fought amongst each other, committed adultery and consumed alcohol, degraded women and had no value, to a nation that lead, with morals and justice, the world for more than 10 centuries, bringing the light of knowledge and justice even to Europe, the contribution of the Muslim civilization to the advancement of the humanity are undeniable and couldn't be achieved except under Islam, here is a video that would give you a glimpse YouTube - The Best in West About Islam.
The Islamic civilization went through a declining curve for like 400 years, ended as a major player in the international field by the fall of the ottoman empire, the current countries that are Muslim majority are led by regimes that serve the purposes of the conquering parties in WW1, and the super powers that rose after that, and not their people.
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But hey .. this is the religion of peace? No. it's the religion of death, and apparently the religion of liars.
Yes, constitution of peace I'd say.
St. Paul is claimed to be the biggest liar in history, by Christians themselves, refer to my previous posts for links to useful books
Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.
In the sphere of international politics, the question is: Can Muslim countries be trusted to keep their end of the agreements that they sign with non-Muslim nations? It is a known Islamic practice, that when Muslims are weak they can agree with most anything. Once they become strong, then they negate what they formerly vowed. The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West. Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts. They carefully try to avoid, obscure, and omit mentioning any of the negative Islamic texts and teachings.
I'm a Sunni,Takeyia is a tactic by Shiite's (1 Shiite : 8 Muslims) that they use within the Sunni Muslim communities, Shiite's are at best described as people that have gone astray from the mainstream of Islam.Takeyia isn't a muslim tactic and doesn't have anything to do with our discussion here.
I'm a Sunni,Takeyia is a tactic by Shiite's (1 Shiite : 8 Muslims) that they use within the Sunni Muslim communities, Shiite's are at best described as people that have gone astray from the mainstream of Islam.Takeyia isn't a muslim tactic and doesn't have anything to do with our discussion here.
Actually I think it does have something to do with the discussion. There is a dispute between the Sunni and the Shiite's, that has a long history.
A man I met he tried to explain it to me as he was from Islamic country. (I say Islamic country, because I do not wish to disrespect, by saying some one is Iraq or some one is Iranian, when I have troubles distinguishing between the two) He went by the name of Mike. Mike tried to tell me of this dispute, however, because I do not live there and that is not of my history, Mike was way up and over my head. However, I do recall he tried to explain to me differences between, by explaining to me about the dispute Sunni vs. Shiite and how it came to be there was one. (also I was going through a stressful time in my life, so comprehending anything any one was trying to tell, was not going to happen)
You have pointed out that within the Muslims there is a split within the Islamic principle belief system. (When there is a split within the Baptist church, often many times, they just close the doors to the church)
Also, which one is the woman, how drew the cartoon, in hiding from?
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All Abrahamic religions promised this day,Armageddon as in the old testament,but from an Islamic perspective.
The day will come that the Lord will wipe us away once again, just as in the day of The Flood, the day will be of fire. I'd say, the Lord is coming and Hell is coming with Him. If the Holy Bible is true and I don't know that John (Revelations) was Islamic. Islamic may wish to get a new perspective some time between now and the day, fire rains down on this earth. Scientist say that the earth is moving towards the sun. Makes a person wonder, doesn't it?
Actually I think it does have something to do with the discussion. There is a dispute between the Sunni and the Shiite's, that has a long history.
A man I met he tried to explain it to me as he was from Islamic country. (I say Islamic country, because I do not wish to disrespect, by saying some one is Iraq or some one is Iranian, when I have troubles distinguishing between the two) He went by the name of Mike. Mike tried to tell me of this dispute, however, because I do not live there and that is not of my history, Mike was way up and over my head. However, I do recall he tried to explain to me differences between, by explaining to me about the dispute Sunni vs. Shiite and how it came to be there was one. (also I was going through a stressful time in my life, so comprehending anything any one was trying to tell, was not going to happen)
You have pointed out that within the Muslims there is a split within the Islamic principle belief system. (When there is a split within the Baptist church, often many times, they just close the doors to the church)
Also, which one is the woman, how drew the cartoon, in hiding from?
The day will come that the Lord will wipe us away once again, just as in the day of The Flood, the day will be of fire. I'd say, the Lord is coming and Hell is coming with Him. If the Holy Bible is true and I don't know that John (Revelations) was Islamic. Islamic may wish to get a new perspective some time between now and the day, fire rains down on this earth. Scientist say that the earth is moving towards the sun. Makes a person wonder, doesn't it?
The link you provided is titled by Bin Ladin, he is a born Sunni, the acts of terror that was claimed to him, were condemned by the majority of the Islamic world scholars. same for the cartoonist, just a punch of ignorant/misguided people.
The whole point behind this discussion is to endorse that Islam or any other belief cannot be judged by the doings of some people of its followers that are proven to have deviated away from its mainstream, or have brought up an extreme ideology that has no relation to the teachings of Islam, in this case, or Jesus if we mention the inquisition in Spain or others.
Muslims Believe in the holy bible, in Jesus as the messiah at the end of time, as a prophet not as God or son of God, and in Virgin Mary to be the most noble woman God had ever created, this belief is so important to such a limit that a man is not considered Muslim if he/she disputes that. same goes for all the biblical Prophets.
The link you provided is titled by Bin Ladin, he is a born Sunni, the acts of terror that was claimed to him, were condemned by the majority of the Islamic world scholars. same for the cartoonist, just a punch of ignorant/misguided people.
The whole point behind this discussion is to endorse that Islam or any other belief cannot be judged by the doings of some people of its followers that are proven to have deviated away from its mainstream, or have brought up an extreme ideology that has no relation to the teachings of Islam, in this case, or Jesus if we mention the inquisition in Spain or others.
Muslims Believe in the holy bible, in Jesus as the messiah at the end of time, as a prophet not as God or son of God, and in Virgin Mary to be the most noble woman God had ever created, this belief is so important to such a limit that a man is not considered Muslim if he/she disputes that. same goes for all the biblical Prophets.
Off topic: I had a dream once. Seven *** saw puzzles lay on a table and I placed one piece easily into one puzzle. Muslims are missing one piece of the puzzle.
Islam , as the final religion constitutes not a only a practice of worship, but a complete way of life, thorough to every detail in a humans life , so it has teachings for running an individuals life and also of the whole community, the written constitution is the Quran.
The only reason we ever need for the separation of church and state.
What you describe is a nightmare, and the description as "the final religion" fits with the world's perception of Islam's agenda for the rest of us.
Like I said, a nightmare.
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Scientist say that the earth is moving towards the sun. Makes a person wonder, doesn't it?
