Michael Moore is a GENIUS and SiCKO is his best yet (health care, stats)

[Toninole]

My daughter and I just got back from Seattle and seeing SiCKO. It was wonderful and awful at the same time.

Awful because there are so many people who have no insurance and so file bankruptcy (number one factor for filing bankruptcy is medical bills). Awful because those who dutifully work every day and pay into their insurance policies for their families are stuck with either outrageous co=pays for treatment and prescriptions or they are outright denied treatment. There are many heartwrenching examples in this film and I'm sure the conservatives on this forum will say they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and take care of themselves, but he doesn't profile your normal targets like the welfare poor. He profiles the workers of America who are killed or bankrupted by their insurance companies. You can't attack these people for not working hard.

I hope you guys will let go of your prejudices against this man long enough to see a movie that might change your life. He talks to conservative Canadians who have health care. He talks to people in England, France, and Cuba who have health care (Cuba is #39 on the best coverage in the world just 2 places behind us and theirs is free).

Here are some highlights for those of you who won't go see it:

France:
5 weeks of guaranteed vacation per year
1 week for a honeymoon if you marry ON TOP of your normal vacation
UNLIMITED sick days
FREE health care and medicine
FREE nanny care after you have a child
FREE home visits by doctors
FREE college for your children
One to Two dollars a day for day care

England:
FREE health care
No one under 16 or over 60 (or poor) pays more than 6.65 pounds per prescription
Doctors aren't poor - they drive Audis and live in million dollar homes (make 85,000 pounds per year)
Doctors are paid MORE as their patients become healthier. If you get your patients to stop smoking, lose weight, lower their HBP or cholesterol - you are paid MORE.
Doctors are never denied treatment for their patients. NO ONE tells the doc he can't perform a procedure!!!
Patients are never denied care
They PAY you for your transportation fees into the hospital
They give you 6 months paid maternity leave and allow 6 months more unpaid
The average wait time in a hospital waiting room is between 20 and 45 minutes.

All of this and neither of these countries are bankrupt, their people live well, are well educated and have a longer life expectancy than Americans.

I know we like to beat up on France and I know that there are wait times for elective procedures, but necessary procedures are performed in the order that is required and no one is denied and left to die.

SOme of the saddest profiles were of the 9/11 rescue workers that have become ill after their exposure to benzine and other air contaminants after the towers fell. These people risked their lives, health and sanity staring the worst of humanity in the face day after day for months on end so that our country could heal and the families of the people who died could have their remains to bury. What did they receive for that? Watch the film and you'll see. Yep, Moore took them to Cuba to see if they could get treatment at Gitmo because, from what Bill Frist says, the Al-Qaeda suspects are getting excellent care at the Navy Hosp there. Shouldn't then the heroes who toiled every day to clean up that mess get the same care? Well, our government has abandoned these people, but the CUBAN government took them in and tested and treated them.

I am curious to see how many of you will just flame this with "communism" "lies" "myths" and so on and if any of you will actually try to take it in that Michael Moore isn't out to bankrupt you, but to actually help you just as he has in nearly every other movie he has made.

[Mag3.14]

In England the heathcare is NOT free. They take 8% of your gross every month for the NHS, and the service is shocking. If you need a non-emergency op like a replacement hip, you could wait 6-12 months for an opening. The National Health Service in England is a joke.

The wait time in ER is way more than that. I have sat for 3+ hours with a broken arm waiting to be seen. I've never heard of the hospital paying for your transportation.

I had to have an operation about 2 years ago. A piece of bone removed from the inside of my nose from where I had broken it in the past playing rugby. I had to wait about a year to have it done, and they couldn't provide an area for me to work of the aneasthetic after the op as it was so crowded. I had to walk home practially drunk.

I like Micheal Moore and will see the film, but I actually prefer the US system whereby insurance has to pay for private care. The problem is people who don't have jobs or who's company won't provide adequate care, but in England I would be very worried if I had a real problem to be taken care of anyway.

[spunky1]

Moore is a genious in the art of spin and propaganda. It is sad that people will see this movie and actually buy into it. The previous poster addressed the fallacies regarding England's system, and if one does a bit of research they will see the huge mess that is France.

Think. There is nothing "free."

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by spunky1

Moore is a genious in the art of spin and propaganda. It is sad that people will see this movie and actually buy into it. The previous poster addressed the fallacies regarding England's system, and if one does a bit of research they will see the huge mess that is France.

Think. There is nothing "free."

Being French might classify me as "having done a bit of research" and believe me the health system there is second to none ( literally according to the WHO). I have sadly due to long term illness had to use the system and could not find any faults with it. Quick , expert medical care accessible to all , including the homeless.
And you are right it is paid by taxes, which means that the poorest are not left to die just because of their financial situation. That is called society. I wouldn't want to live somewhere where everything is about "ME" and what can "I" get out of everything in life, rather looking after the most vulnerable. Not being able to afford private health insurance should not be seen as a crime of laziness and failure. Things happen in life to render decent human beings unable to look after themselves. That is called life. I would hope for all our sakes that we can find enough compassion and emotional intelligence to accept that and treat other human beings with dignity and due care. How does millions of Americans having no access to health care constitute a great social success exactly ? Are we really saying all those people are lazy,stupid or just plain worthless as human beings just because of their circumstances ? That it is OK for them not to be treated and left to die and fend for themselves ? Health care is not a luxury, it's a basic human right.

[skytrekker]

Moore exposes the wonderfully American concept of putting its citzens health and well being at the mercy of predatory for profit corporations-the health care industrial complex- which over the past 30 years has become the bloated monster it is. Curious indeed that these corporations have the power of life and death as well as economic survival over so many- yet no one in the US Government has had the courage to curb and regulate these vultures (from neither political party-including Mrs. Clinton)

Moore's basic question is this; what rational, decent and civilized country would do this to its citizens; Especially a nation of such wealth and power. Answer? The same nation that elected Bush twice- or did they in 2000? Seems like a banana republic in Latin America. And goes to prove the USA has evolved little since its inception.

As far as the idea 'that nothing is for free' tell that to the CEO's of Johnson & Johnson, Humana and United Health care;
Also the lobbyists get lots of stuff for 'free' from these companies, trips, gifts etc.It seems in the USA today one has to have the right connections- for the gravy train- if not tough shi*. Health care that is for free or at least based on a sliding scale is what any civilized nation would do- the USA has a barbarian like mentality.

Harry S. Truman in 1948 wanted national health care. The same 'people' who blocked that effort then are still around today - aging demographics and out of control costs however will probably make these 'people' loose this time around- the problems are becoming worse- and any smart politician realizes that.

[Anarchy]

Originally Posted by Toninole

England:
FREE health care
No one under 16 or over 60 (or poor) pays more than 6.65 pounds per prescription
Doctors aren't poor - they drive Audis and live in million dollar homes (make 85,000 pounds per year)
Doctors are paid MORE as their patients become healthier. If you get your patients to stop smoking, lose weight, lower their HBP or cholesterol - you are paid MORE.
Doctors are never denied treatment for their patients. NO ONE tells the doc he can't perform a procedure!!!
Patients are never denied care
They PAY you for your transportation fees into the hospital
They give you 6 months paid maternity leave and allow 6 months more unpaid
The average wait time in a hospital waiting room is between 20 and 45 minutes.

Ha ha this made me laugh 20 minutes to 45 mintues waiting time I wish its more like 3hrs or more.

Doctors live in million dollar homes yea right, I will have to check sicko out its sounds like a comedy to me.

[bily4]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

Being French might classify me as "having done a bit of research" and believe me the health system there is second to none ( literally according to the WHO). I have sadly due to long term illness had to use the system and could not find any faults with it. Quick , expert medical care accessible to all , including the homeless.
And you are right it is paid by taxes, which means that the poorest are not left to die just because of their financial situation. That is called society. I wouldn't want to live somewhere where everything is about "ME" and what can "I" get out of everything in life, rather looking after the most vulnerable. Not being able to afford private health insurance should not be seen as a crime of laziness and failure. Things happen in life to render decent human beings unable to look after themselves. That is called life. I would hope for all our sakes that we can find enough compassion and emotional intelligence to accept that and treat other human beings with dignity and due care. How does millions of Americans having no access to health care constitute a great social success exactly ? Are we really saying all those people are lazy,stupid or just plain worthless as human beings just because of their circumstances ? That it is OK for them not to be treated and left to die and fend for themselves ? Health care is not a luxury, it's a basic human right.

Nicely worded, Musketeer. I would also put out there that multi- hour waits in America and people getting shafted on care in the name of profit are certainly becoming commonplace. To get an appointment unless it is urgent you need to make it 6 months in advance. I am sure there are problems in every healtchcare system. However our cost and our quality in the US is getting more and more out of whack. Just look at the stats. There are a lot of problems with US healthcare, and if Moore can call attention to some of it then that is caertainly not a bad thing for any of us.

[skytrekker]

Originally Posted by Anarchy

Ha ha this made me laugh 20 minutes to 45 mintues waiting time I wish its more like 3hrs or more.

Doctors live in million dollar homes yea right, I will have to check sicko out its sounds like a comedy to me.

And what is your solution?

What we have in the USA? Get sick here without insurance and have debt and bankruptcy beyond your worse dreams. While merciless companies make huge profits- my advice to you - stay in England- you never had it so good.

[doss1]

Is it true that in Germany, they get 3 day weekends each week?

[bily4]

We had a German come to work temporarily in the US in our company. He was able to keep the vacation he had in Germany, which was something like 6 weeks. Caused a little friction when everyone else only had 2-3 weeks. Italy is about to take a month off right now, they do every August.