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An EXPLORER, not an INTRUDER. Intruders go into someone else's land. the tribes in the Americas had no concept of land ownership so there is no way one could 'intrude' on their land.
Also, of COURSE he didn't know EXACTLY where he was. Again, he was EXPLORING. You don't explore knwon areas. You explore unknown areas. Duh.
"Beautiful cities" is an opinion. From the drawings I've seen there was nothing beautiful about them. Primitive huts and an occasional pyramid temple for human sacrifice. Like I said: savages.
The bottom line is that all those tribes don't even amount to a minor foot note in history. They just don't rise to the level of being important by any stretch of the imagination. Colombus is more important than everything about them. He did more in one year to change the world than their entire civilizations (and I use that term loosely) did during their entire existance.
Not true. Hernando Cortes described Teotihuacan (Mexico City) to be as beautiful or more so than Venice. What you see today are only ruins that are thousands of years old. Let's see how many of our modern buildings can survive that long. What would future societies judge about our aged buildings in their future?
The government and bank workers needed a three day holiday in October and the only other option was Halloween which did not appeal to the Christians.
Personally, I do not celebrate Columbus Day (even though I am 1/2 Italian) because I think what happened to the Native Peoples when this continent was "discovered" and populated by Europeans is an abomination.
Samhain, on the other hand, is celebrated in my house.
Happy Halloween y'all.
20yrsinBranson
I agree, and I think reparations are in order. Let's start with giving them your home.
While the tribes in the Americas may not have had a concept of land ownership, they certainly did have an understanding of territorial ownership. In that sense, intrusion was certainly possible.
OK, I'll agree with that. They had no sense if individual land ownership but they certainly did understand territorial ownership as you said. We know that because tribes often foiught their neighbors over territory.
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Originally Posted by Lucario
To the Spanish crown, he was an explorer. To everyone else on Earth, he was an intruder. Pure and simple.
To everyone in the civilized world he was a hero. To those in the new world... well, they didn't know about him because they didn't have newspapers or any other way of getting the word out.
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You just can't get past your racist, myopic Eurocentrism, can you?
LOL @ Eurocentrism. I loath people with a pro-Europe liberal elitist snobish attitude. However, in 1492 Europe was the civilized world. One might make an argument for China or a few other small areas but no way could anyone make that claim for the Americas. YOU, on the other hand can't seem to get past your "Noble Savage" view of the indigenous people of the Americas (Noble savage in this case don't actually mean "savage" in the modern concept. I think its a literary term).
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Savages? Ever heard of slavery or the Inquisition?
Yawn. I probably know more about the Inquisition than you. Did you know that less than 1% of those charged with a crime in the Inquisition were convicted? Did you know that Muslims kiolled mroe people in the past three years than were convicted and executed during ALL of hte Inquisition. The Inquisition is the boogyman that the left brings out to scare people with little knowledge of what it actually was.
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Yup. He introduced disease, slavery, colonialism, and other pestilence to what is now known as the Americas. Good for him.
They already had diseases, just different diseases. Colonialism is a GOOD thing. It allows an indigenous population's tech level to be raised by the investment of time, knowledge, and money of a foreign power. India today is a great example of how a society benefits from colonialism. They would not be the vibrant strong capitalist democracy they are today without British colonialism.
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Originally Posted by wehotex
Not true. Hernando Cortes described Teotihuacan (Mexico City) to be as beautiful or more so than Venice.
But, but, but... Hernando Cortes was a European and if I've learned anything from Lucario in this thread it is that Europeans can't appreciate anything about the indigenous peoples of the Americas. They only came their to wipe them out and take their gold.
To everyone in the civilized world he was a hero. To those in the new world... well, they didn't know about him because they didn't have newspapers or any other way of getting the word out.
Please define "civilized."
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LOL @ Eurocentrism. I loath people with a pro-Europe liberal elitist snobish attitude. However, in 1492 Europe was the civilized world. One might make an argument for China or a few other small areas but no way could anyone make that claim for the Americas.
See above.
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YOU, on the other hand can't seem to get past your "Noble Savage" view of the indigenous people of the Americas (Noble savage in this case don't actually mean "savage" in the modern concept. I think its a literary term).
What in the hell are you talking about?
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Yawn. I probably know more about the Inquisition than you.
Now that is funny.
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Did you know that less than 1% of those charged with a crime in the Inquisition were convicted? Did you know that Muslims kiolled mroe people in the past three years than were convicted and executed during ALL of hte Inquisition. The Inquisition is the boogyman that the left brings out to scare people with little knowledge of what it actually was.
Even if I believed this, it has nothing to do with the points I was making.
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They already had diseases, just different diseases. Colonialism is a GOOD thing. It allows an indigenous population's tech level to be raised by the investment of time, knowledge, and money of a foreign power. India today is a great example of how a society benefits from colonialism. They would not be the vibrant strong capitalist democracy they are today without British colonialism.
'Nuff said. You've proven my point.
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But, but, but... Hernando Cortes was a European and if I've learned anything from Lucario in this thread it is that Europeans can't appreciate anything about the indigenous peoples of the Americas. They only came their to wipe them out and take their gold.
I don't know why the Europeans came, except for they happened upon this land. I do know what the result of their arrival was, however.
One of the reasons we celebrate Columbus Day call the natives Indians and named the continent after an Italian map maker is we don't celebrate Zhang He Day. Zhang He supoosedly sailed Around the Americas and along the Pacfic Northwest in the year 1421. He also gave the Ventians a map in 1434 showing a relatively accurate drawing of the Pacific coast of the Americas. The existence of a narrow strait at the southern tip and the eastern coast as far north as Brazil . The reason he did this was to get the Ventians and other barbarians to follow him to China and pay tribute to his Emperor Yongli.
I'm done debating in this thread. I've made my points and you seem unable or unwilling to grasp them or embrace a point of view other than your own. We could keep going until the NEXT Colombus Day and nothing would change. I wish we had a "Hernando Cortez" day too. Throw in "Francisco Pizarro" too. We could make them all part of "Hispanic Heritage Month".
I'm done debating in this thread. I've made my points and you seem unable or unwilling to grasp them or embrace a point of view other than your own. We could keep going until the NEXT Colombus Day and nothing would change. I wish we had a "Hernando Cortez" day too. Throw in "Francisco Pizarro" too. We could make them all part of "Hispanic Heritage Month".
Fine with me. It matters not to me one iota whether you understand my point. I have always understood yours.
So the government androids and the unions can have a paid day off yet the schools all teach that Columbus never discovered America, and rightly so, since it was never lost.. It's merely a hack's day off.
So the government androids and the unions can have a paid day off yet the schools all teach that Columbus never discovered America, and rightly so, since it was never lost.. It's merely a hack's day off.
Hey, I don't care if it's Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and pink french naughty monkey day, so long as I get the day off.
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