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Old 10-11-2010, 12:39 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,202,406 times
Reputation: 3696

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. The U.S. Constitution authorizes provision for our military.
Everyone is required to pay? No. 47% don't pay federal income tax.
Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0 - broken link)

Everyone is required to sign up for selective service? No.
Selective Service System: Fast Facts
I'll be sure to let the IRS know that since I think military spending it too great, that I'm with holding the percentage of my taxes through the year which would equal the percentage of defense spending and see how well that flies. oy

As to selective service, you are right

Quote:
Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service.
provisions for exemption include the disabled, undocumented workers, dual citizens with diplomatic immunity and conciseness objectors.

So, those Mennonite's down the street that are paying taxes but are also pacifist are not required to pay taxes which will be spend on the common and collective defense?
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,083 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13726
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I'll be sure to let the IRS know that since I think military spending it too great, that I'm with holding the percentage of my taxes through the year which would equal the percentage of defense spending and see how well that flies. oy
Nearly half pay no federal income tax. Nearly half contribute NOTHING to our Constitutionally mandated military. That clearly precludes your 'all are required to pay' delusion.

Quote:
As to selective service, you are right

provisions for exemption include the disabled, undocumented workers, dual citizens with diplomatic immunity and conciseness objectors.
Aren't you forgetting about a very large subgroup of the population?

Quote:
So, those Mennonite's down the street that are paying taxes but are also pacifist are not required to pay taxes which will be spend on the common and collective defense?
How do you know they're paying federal income taxes? Nearly half of the U.S. doesn't.
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:57 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,310,193 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Did you not agree with any part of the article?
That would require having a somewhat open mind.

Do you have ANY idea of who you are posting to?
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:02 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,310,193 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Nearly half pay no federal income tax. Nearly half contribute NOTHING to our Constitutionally mandated military. That clearly precludes your 'all are required to pay' delusion.


Aren't you forgetting about a very large subgroup of the population?


How do you know they're paying federal income taxes? Nearly half of the U.S. doesn't.
If you want more Americans to pay income taxes are you willing to make the standardize deduction for married people without children and single people equal? Are you willing to do away with the home mortgage deduction and deduction for children? Are you willing to do away with earned income credits?

Do away with deductions for people that earn $50,000 and less and more people would end of paying taxes. Do you endorse this?
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:08 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,910,690 times
Reputation: 14345
Any government is inherently socialist, since it exists to serve the public as a whole, whether that service is an army to defend the community, or police to protect the community from within. The government then determines a way to pay to for these services by distributing the burden of the expense. And no government has ever found a way to do so with which all citizens agree is fair and equitable. There are always arguments as to how every method a government uses to raise funds is unfair to some segment of society.

As for redistribution of wealth, that is what an economy is. Every society, every community, has a way to place value on goods and services, and whatever system they use, it involves the transferral of those goods and services for something else of perceived value. It's a redistribution of whatever is of value within that society, whether it's seashells, diamonds or krupa. No society could function without such exchanges. And no society will flourish unless such exchanges are available to all full members of the society. A society where wealth is funnelled to one small group of citizens eventually creates a large group of citizens who can no longer participate economically. When that happens, economies die. That's why middle classes are so important to economies in general, and why a shrinking middle class is seen as symptomatic of an ailing economy.
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,083 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13726
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
If you want more Americans to pay income taxes are you willing to make the standardize deduction for married people without children and single people equal? Are you willing to do away with the home mortgage deduction and deduction for children? Are you willing to do away with earned income credits?

Do away with deductions for people that earn $50,000 and less and more people would end of paying taxes. Do you endorse this?
No. I endorse a flat tax. All Americans pay the EXACT same percentage on their earnings. Earn more; pay more. Earn less; pay less. BUT everyone pays.
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:10 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,202,406 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post

How do you know they're paying federal income taxes? Nearly half of the U.S. doesn't.
How do you know they aren't. Quite a number of Mennonite around here do amazingly well in business as tourist pine for yesteryear. Since most own their own businesses, they are required to pay at least quarterly as sole proprietors.

So, lets assume that 1 single Mennonite in this country is actually paying taxes at the end of the year. Then we are socialist, as a person that may not be required to serve in the military is still having to pay for the common and collective defense as mandated by law and the United States Constitution.

I remember as a kid in the fourth grade watching those old black and white films, some from as far back as the 50's, about things like civic duty, fellowship with our countrymen, etc... Today I just get the feeling that many on the right are so far right they would assume we all lived on compounds using oil lamps and using roads that had a toll booth as it crossed each property owners land.

I do not desire some European socialist state, but America is light years away from that, but we are socialist as any human collective forming a SOCIETY is to some degree.

Its always this grossly simplistic absolutist view of the world we seem to desire. Either fundamentalist on a compound stroking a rifle in the dark chanting "this is my weapon this is my gun, this is for killing and this is for fun" or a communist state like...well I guess Cuba is all that is left. as though the world in between doesn't even exist and as though Americans and our government, no matter how disgusting would choose a system of government that has failed dismally in every place it was ever attempted.
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Illinois Delta
5,767 posts, read 5,019,994 times
Reputation: 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
You people sure is too smart. For a while I didn't think anyone would ever be able to tell that Obama and liberals are actually commies that want America to be like the USSR.
I'm with you guys. Instead of progressive, I want to see America regressive.
Now, ain't that the truth? What kind of nut would want progress? That's just unAmerican! Back to the horse and buggy days, only minus the part where you might have a barn-raising, send food to help a sick neighbor, or learn anything that was written after the Renaissance.
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,084 posts, read 14,872,981 times
Reputation: 4041
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterinAmerica View Post
The debate hasn't change since the founding of the country and you'd think the Civil War has never been fought.
Hummmmm, a common mis-conception, there is NOTHING civil about war!
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:24 PM
 
2,564 posts, read 1,598,271 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
"Much of the ongoing debate in political, business and social/cultural arenas is rooted in an underlying disagreement about what best serves national interests and individual lives -- is it promoting the common good, or serving self-interest?"

A Growing "Social Psychosis" Clashes With Serving The Common Good
Spot on!:


"...Public/Social Policy Ready for another one? This delusion is promoted by the Republican-Tea Party, and embraced by rising numbers of Americans. Essentially, it's that government is bad for you. Except, of course, when it authorizes tax cuts for you, if you're rich. Or, when you would like some firefighters to come by when your house is burning. Or if you'd like schools to exist to educate your child. Or...well, you get the point..."
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