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Corporations don't have rights - they have obligations and liabilities.
They clearly have rights.. They have the right to sue, they have the right to take part in commerce, they have the right to not have their patents infringed upon, the right to buy property, and obviously they have the right to donate to the election process in the same manner unions and individuals (since they are an individual) has been forever..
Obligations and liabilities dont exist unless you have rights and exercise those rights. Example, with that right to buy property, THEN you get the obligation to pay taxes, and the liabilities if people are harmed on that property. If they had no rights, then there would be no reason to establish a coporation.
They clearly have rights.. They have the right to sue, they have the right to take part in commerce, they have the right to not have their patents infringed upon, the right to buy property, and obviously they have the right to donate to the election process in the same manner unions and individuals (since they are an individual) has been forever..
Obligations and liabilities dont exist unless you have rights and exercise those rights. Example, with that right to buy property, THEN you get the obligation to pay taxes, and the liabilities if people are harmed on that property. If they had no rights, then there would be no reason to establish a coporation.
Okaaaay, but a corporation is not an individual, not even a fictional individual.
The Robert's decision grants too much power to the States to influence Federal elections.
Delaware is going to rule the United States.
Don't get me started about foreign corporations and banks.
This picces me off.
This picces me right off!
State's Rights is States' Rights, but Robert's ain't been right yet!
States rights were lost during the last Progressive era. Eliminating the checks and balance that kept the constitution in tact.
The 17th amendment. It needs to go.
Special interest already elects house members. The States no longer have a say in Federal Government.
Senate candidates have to raise so much money to run that they become beholden to special interests. The state legislators would not be as compromised and would choose senators who truly put their state's needs first.
Okaaaay, but a corporation is not an individual, not even a fictional individual.
Corporations are indeed an individual. AGAIN the LEGAL definition of a Corporation is...
[SIZE=3]corporation[/SIZE] n. an organization formed with state governmental approval to act as an artificial person to carry on business (or other activities), which can sue or be sued, and (unless it is non-profit) can issue shares of stock to raise funds with which to start a business or increase its capital.
A PERSON is an Individual is it not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead
It is, at best, a "fictional person". Hahahahaha!
Wrong.. in order for them to be a fictional person, they would have to not exist. Corporations do exist correct? If they didnt, you wouldnt create threads about them..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead
You read a lota fiction do ya, pghquest?
Actually no.. I read boring business and legal journals..
Neither are corporations or the individuals when they donate to campaigns. They are all buying their OWN influcence.. they are not contributing to ensure the candidate does whats in the best interest of the nation..
You have to admit that it makes it more likely to be in the nation's interest when the group they're representing is composed of American citizens. Union PAC money doesn't come from dues--it comes from separately raised and administered funds from members (usually in gifts of around 50-$100 per year--not much more) that people volunteer to pledge on top of their dues. Any kind of PAC from a membership organization is essentially people pooling their smaller amounts of money together to do political work. It really is a different situation than a privately held corporation, with one owner, putting in big dollars himself. I'm not saying either is wrong, but I think there is a difference in terms of broad benefit.
Corporations are indeed an individual. AGAIN the LEGAL definition of a Corporation is...
n. an organization formed with state governmental approval to act as an artificial person to carry on business (or other activities), which can sue or be sued, and (unless it is non-profit) can issue shares of stock to raise funds with which to start a business or increase its capital.[/i]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
A PERSON is an Individual is it not?
Dogs breed. Humans breed. Ergo, dogs are human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Wrong.. in order for them to be a fictional person, they would have to not exist. Corporations do exist correct? If they didnt, you wouldnt create threads about them..
"A rather significant legal fiction that is still in use today is corporate personhood (see corporation)."
You have to admit that it makes it more likely to be in the nation's interest when the group they're representing is composed of American citizens.
Not at all true. I could list numerous examples of how people donate to politicians to do something counter beneficial to americans. For example, someone could buy influence to repeal laws. Look at the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act for one such example. Repealing protection was not in the best interest of americans. How about the latest healthcare law.. You dont think certain groups (like unions) bought special exemptions from the law? (they did).. Do you think this was benefitical to americans? The fact is people look out for their own interest, buying influence is NOT for the nations interest, its for YOUR interest.. thats why YOU buy it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
Union PAC money doesn't come from dues--it comes from separately raised and administered funds from members (usually in gifts of around 50-$100 per year--not much more) that people volunteer to pledge on top of their dues.
It can also come from corporations, 3rd party members, suppliers, partners, pretty much anyone. This fact alone makes the OP's argument against corporations contributing to campaigns rather ridiculous because they already do. An individual for example can contribute $1,000 to a candidate, or the corporation they own can contribute $1,000 to the same candidate. Whats the issue if the net donation doesnt change? Even if the net donation does change, a "person", in america, is entitled to do what they wish with their own money. Unions have been creating those very same PACs since who knows when without a problem, now all of a sudden corporations can contribute (even though they always have, just through the individuals anyways) and the world is falling apart for some people..
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb1547
Any kind of PAC from a membership organization is essentially people pooling their smaller amounts of money together to do political work. It really is a different situation than a privately held corporation, with one owner, putting in big dollars himself. I'm not saying either is wrong, but I think there is a difference in terms of broad benefit.
Not at all different.. Both scenarious consist of a few individuals deciding how to "buy" influence for the benefit of the group.. You often see industries buying influence in the same manner. The agriculture industry for example has numerous groups where the farmers contribute and a very select few at the top decide how to spend the money. The AARP another example. All of these the left doesnt seem to have a problem with contributing but dont let those corporations.. nooo. .they are bad bad bad..
Sigh - I guess the corporate "contribution" can be written off as a business expense.
Cost of doing business.
Corporate person's burden.
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