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Old 10-27-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,410,222 times
Reputation: 6388

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The problem with the capitalist view is it's based on money, nothing more than paper and ink humans foolishly chase after, and reduces the value of human life to monetary issues. The problem with socialism, is it makes government out to be the solution to everything, when it usually just makes things worse.

And your argument can be easily refuted...locally, there are any number of businesses, whose owners are millionaires at this point, yet who do none of the work involved in making that money. Because of the lack of jobs here (in part their doing as they are the primary lobbyists behind blocking businesses coming in, etc., in this state, as it ain't the local, average people), they can pay their workers nothing but min. wage while demanding anything from years of experience to a CDL to even a college degree, in a state where one must earn, by most economists' figures, over $15 an hour to get by given the cost of living here. In short, the success of certain local business owners, is built entirely on their exploiting the local people and poor economy, and using the government to ensure little competition in the name of keeping the nice views out their mcmansions blighting our countryside. There is a lot of bitterness building up in people over this. What will happen, I have no idea.
So, those millionaire business owners, were they millionaires when they started? Each one of those bitter empoyees has the best job available to them; the highest and best use of their time is showing up for work--or else they would not be there. Anyone can start a business, if they feel their value is not being reflected in their pay. Exploitation is a two-way street: those business owners would be happy to tell you about employees who do poor work, don't show, aren't interested in productivity, abuse the work comp system, abuse the unemployment system, etc. I understand that in this crappy economy, many people are working in low-wage areas and are doing the best that they can.

Given the need on the part of local governments to build a tax base, it is really hard to keep out new businesses. In fact, most jurisdictions have economic development deals and tax breaks to subsidize new businesses--sometimes indirectly funded by taxes on existing businesses.

Money is only a medium of exchange. You exchange value with an employer, labor for money, which allows you to exchange value with the grocer, money for food. America became the wealthiest and most productive society on the face of the planet because each one of us is freer here to unlock the maximum fraction of our potential. We are born with differing levels of ability, we develop our skills and interests to different degrees, we adopt a sound work ethic or we don't, we strive to be productive or just put in our time--of course there are a wide range of outcomes.

Go ask the boss what you would have to do in order to be worth 50% more to him. You might be surprised. Most businesses are looking for all the great employees they can find.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,532,927 times
Reputation: 7807
If our current divisiveness does erupt into violence, it won't be like our previous civil war, but more like Rwanda as people like the Beckbots go after perceived "liberals" and "progressives" in their neighborhoods.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:26 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,041,798 times
Reputation: 2033
Revolution? By WHO? LMAO! Your average American can spout off just about every stat and factoid regarding professional sports or who's dating who in Hollyweird......but when it comes to being actually informed about what's going on in their country and with their government most just swallow hook line and sinker whatever the corporate controlled media tells them. We can hardly get our obese arses out of our lazyboy and put down that bag of chips for anything other than a 4 alarm house fire. You know how many people I see protesting out in the streets here in Orange County? ZERO ZIP ZILCH! The french bring their entire country to a standstill in a matter of days with protests and civil disobedience........(and a little well deserved violence and we can't even manage to hold up a cardboard sign and stand out in the street collectively in this country. But you expect us to pick up a pitchfork (or a gun for that matter) and revolt? LMAO! The only thing Americans are going to revolt against is their inability to consume massive amounts of cheap chinese made garbage, their Iphones and Ipads, and their McDonalds and professional sports obsessions! If you keep the lemmings satiated on frivolous consumption who needs a revolt?

The only revolt I see happening is going to be at the hands of the true informed patriots that see what's actually going on in their country and guess what?????? They will be labeled "terrorists" just like the patriots of 1776 were. Only this time the sheeple have mass media and massive instant propaganda at the hands of internet, cable news, and government/corporate spokesholes.

Watch V for Vedetta........that'st he life our kids will be growing up in if things don't change.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:35 PM
 
516 posts, read 375,877 times
Reputation: 262
Revolution? I'm ready.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:48 PM
 
888 posts, read 1,186,959 times
Reputation: 618
The true informed Patriots?

Every crack-smoking skinhead with prison tats and a bolt action rifle, calls himself a......true informed Patriot.

Welcome to the American Militia Movement.

Steve
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:51 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,452,870 times
Reputation: 14266
...doubt it.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:55 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,041,798 times
Reputation: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhound View Post
The true informed Patriots?

Every crack-smoking skinhead with prison tats and a bolt action rifle, calls himself a......true informed Patriot.

Welcome to the American Militia Movement.

Steve
Ummm keyword "true". Skinheads are a joke and are no threat to the government. They would be squashed in a real revolution.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:28 AM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,499,682 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
So, those millionaire business owners, were they millionaires when they started? Each one of those bitter empoyees has the best job available to them; the highest and best use of their time is showing up for work--or else they would not be there. Anyone can start a business, if they feel their value is not being reflected in their pay. Exploitation is a two-way street: those business owners would be happy to tell you about employees who do poor work, don't show, aren't interested in productivity, abuse the work comp system, abuse the unemployment system, etc. I understand that in this crappy economy, many people are working in low-wage areas and are doing the best that they can.

Given the need on the part of local governments to build a tax base, it is really hard to keep out new businesses. In fact, most jurisdictions have economic development deals and tax breaks to subsidize new businesses--sometimes indirectly funded by taxes on existing businesses.

Money is only a medium of exchange. You exchange value with an employer, labor for money, which allows you to exchange value with the grocer, money for food. America became the wealthiest and most productive society on the face of the planet because each one of us is freer here to unlock the maximum fraction of our potential. We are born with differing levels of ability, we develop our skills and interests to different degrees, we adopt a sound work ethic or we don't, we strive to be productive or just put in our time--of course there are a wide range of outcomes.

Go ask the boss what you would have to do in order to be worth 50% more to him. You might be surprised. Most businesses are looking for all the great employees they can find.
Most of them have inherited substantial wealth.

I'd love to see you tell someone to their face that about the jobs here, when they're trying to decide between paying their rent or buying groceries...

Money is a figment of your imagination. It's only worth what you "think" it's worth. It's paper and ink, backed by nothing. Not everyone buys into that line of thinking.

I'm about to fall over laughing at that last statement, they'd say there's a couple hundred more unemployed people behind you...

State level politics keeps out business here, local governments have little power here.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:49 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,315,210 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
If our current divisiveness does erupt into violence, it won't be like our previous civil war, but more like Rwanda as people like the Beckbots go after perceived "liberals" and "progressives" in their neighborhoods.
Or you could move up here to Canada or anywhere in the world for that matter and relax because according to some its all a socialist nanny state outside the USA where nobody works and we just sit around watching America destroy itself through uncompromising political ideology.
Big mid season tv special upcoming its called "mid term elections"
Gonna have to stock up on extra beer and chips for this show.
Better than a hockey game for fighting
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:00 AM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,041,798 times
Reputation: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Or you could move up here to Canada or anywhere in the world for that matter and relax because according to some its all a socialist nanny state outside the USA where nobody works and we just sit around watching America destroy itself through uncompromising political ideology.
Big mid season tv special upcoming its called "mid term elections"
Gonna have to stock up on extra beer and chips for this show.
Better than a hockey game for fighting
Our egocentric view as Americans is what I'm most ashamed about being an American. You are absolutely right what you say. We act like capitalism i.e. American capitalism is the best and only way to run an economy. We act like we are the only successful, hardest working people on the planet. I get sick of it. Europe has a lot to be envious about. So does many aspects of the world. We are great at a lot of things but not everything. America has changed a lot in 50 years. The America immigrants were scrambling and dying and sacrificing to come to for opportunity is not the same America that exists today.
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