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What are you talking about? The UAW lost 21,000 members due to the bankruptcy.
The UAW numbers were down well before the bankruptcy. In 2008 they were down to less than 500,000 members.. Bankruptcy didnt take place until 2009
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Originally Posted by Wayland Woman
They aren't "better off" by any stretch of the imagination
They are 100% better off now than before. THEY OWN A CAR COMPANY, where before they didnt.
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Originally Posted by Wayland Woman
their VEBA trust for retiree health care will still be grossly underfunded even after the UAW sells off all the stock they got from the bankruptcy court.
Meaningless because they were ALWAYS underfunded. Under NORMAL bankruptcy, they would get NOTHING to sell off.. There would be no stock from the bankruptcy courts..
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Originally Posted by Wayland Woman
They also gave up pensions rights for new hire-ins as well as accepted a two-tier pay scale for new hire-ins.
Again, not relevant to the topic because they negotiated a lower pay scale, but that doesnt mean that under normal bankruptcy there would be NOTHING to negotiate.. Unions are BUSTED in this type of bankruptcy.. Creating a new corporation and moving assets, VOIDS a union inside the corporation created..
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Originally Posted by Wayland Woman
They weren't placed higher than other entities. The stock they received was no were near the value of the billions of dollars owed to the UAW.
And in normal bankruptcy they would receive NO STOCK.. The fact that they DID, proves they were placed higher than other entities.. Bankruptcy means that.. YOU GET NOTHING if you are an unsecured creditor. UAW was an unsecured creditor.. They received SPECIAL powers, and a CAR COMPANY when they shouldnt have..
The UAW numbers were down well before the bankruptcy. In 2008 they were down to less than 500,000 members.. Bankruptcy didnt take place until 2009
They are 100% better off now than before. THEY OWN A CAR COMPANY, where before they didnt.
Meaningless because they were ALWAYS underfunded. Under NORMAL bankruptcy, they would get NOTHING to sell off.. There would be no stock from the bankruptcy courts..
Again, not relevant to the topic because they negotiated a lower pay scale, but that doesnt mean that under normal bankruptcy there would be NOTHING to negotiate.. Unions are BUSTED in this type of bankruptcy.. Creating a new corporation and moving assets, VOIDS a union inside the corporation created..
And in normal bankruptcy they would receive NO STOCK.. The fact that they DID, proves they were placed higher than other entities.. Bankruptcy means that.. YOU GET NOTHING if you are an unsecured creditor. UAW was an unsecured creditor.. They received SPECIAL powers, and a CAR COMPANY when they shouldnt have..
Wrong. The bankruptcy forced the closure of 14 GM plants, leaving nearly 21,000 workers without jobs in 2009. It was part of the required restructuring to a leaner, meaner company.
Shouldn't have bailed them out at all with others' money. GM should have been made to deal with their market failure like any other enterprise has to. Daily. It'd only be good for them in the long run. Ask Ford who refused bailouts. But GM got Obama's attention I guess with their exec's greasy haircuts and great ass kissing skills. Therefore I'd love to see GM completely disappear within my liftime. Needless to say, I'll never buy anything GM makes.
Wrong. The bankruptcy forced the closure of 14 GM plants, leaving nearly 21,000 workers without jobs in 2009. It was part of the required restructuring to a leaner, meaner company.
And I don't where you learned math but holding 17% stock in a company is NOT owning a car company.
The rest of your comments have been regurgitated so many times on this site it's almost spam. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Obviously you have some type of connection to the union, and therefore unable to talk about it objectively. The fact that GM closed 14 plants doesnt mean that the UAW didnt benefit. Fact, under NORMAL bankruptcies, anyone holding unsecured debt gets NOTHING.. UAW held unsecured debt, they would get NOTHING...Not 17 %, not 1%.. ZERO!!!
Also when GM created a new company and transferred their assets, union contracts are VOIDED.. NOTHING.. You get ZERO.. ZIP, NADDA, because the union contracts are with the OLD GM, not the new one. Section 11 U.S.C. 1113 of the US Bankruptcy code, voids union contracts in BK.. Again, that didnt happen here... But yet the union contracts were held in place.. NOT NORMAL!! You can ignore this but that doesnt change reality..
I'm really confused by this statement.. (as most from you)..
Are you saying that because the unions are made up of americans, that hell with the laws, the court systems, the creditor standards, and that we are now re-organizing priorities based upon ones citizen status over the laws put in place to protect everyone?
That is just what happened to teh TARP funds used that were never even mentioned in congressional approval. One reson your not like to see congress do it agin without controls on the spending. Basically same thing happened to the stimulus money that as you rememeber was a infrastructure plan that would creat millons of jobs to limit unemployemnt. at most 305 was spent as such the rest going to special interest alined in politics.
What are you talking about? The UAW lost 21,000 members due to the bankruptcy. They aren't "better off" by any stretch of the imagination and their VEBA trust for retiree health care will still be grossly underfunded even after the UAW sells off all the stock they got from the bankruptcy court. They also gave up pensions rights for new hire-ins as well as accepted a two-tier pay scale for new hire-ins. They weren't placed higher than other entities. The stock they received was no were near the value of the billions of dollars owed to the UAW.
I can't believe that, in this day and age, even rightwingers are clueless enough to think that labor unions "are whistling to the bank".
The anti union sentiment stoked by corporatist owned and controlled mouthpieces like the Washington Times and FOX News have a vested financial interest in destroying labor unions and the middle class. Unions today have little leverage and that control continues to shrink.
And I am SO happy that GM is making a comeback!
I'm reminded how anti-American the rightwing has become when they attack both GM and the federal government for keeping manufacturing jobs alive in this country.
I couldn't rep you again but I totally agree with your post. I recently moved to Lansing, Michigan and we have several GM plants in the area. Not only has GM restructured financially they are making well designed quality vehicles.
People forget the GM management failures are responsible for their financial problems. Their financial problem were known for years and documented by anybody that could read a financial statement.
The American economy is better with a vibrant and competitive GM than without it. Let’s hope they make the most of this second chance.
It REALLY pays to be a labor union under this administration:
The boon for the union fits the pattern established when the White House pushed GM into bankruptcy and steered it through the courts in a way that consistently put the interests of the union ahead of many suppliers, dealers and investors — stakeholders that ordinarily would have fared as well or better under the bankruptcy laws.
The original stockholders were screwed to the wall by this administration, and the taxpayers will take years to recoup their investment if they ever do so,....but the labor unions are free to do as they please and are whistling to the bank with their loot.
Gotta love this anti-business, pro-labor administration.
And you have done a great job of reminding me what one of the most obvious reasons for the high price of automobiles is today. Thirty years ago I was reading, I guess those horrible right wing people, talking about the effect on prices of autos of the goodies to the unions. I guess it depends on where you stand, politically, which side is the most right or wrong.
There are a host of foreign car manufacturers with non-union factories in the United States with cars that cost every bit as much as GM vehicles, if not more.
Where is your outrage?
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