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Honestly? The koran is a book of crazy ramblings of a mad man. It's violent and orders its readers to do violent acts.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Book of Civility, Book of Etiquette"? If you mean the etiquette a man should observe when he beats his wife or cuts the head off an infidel, I guess that would be accurate.
Honestly? The koran is a book of crazy ramblings of a mad man. It's violent and orders its readers to do violent acts.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "Book of Civility, Book of Etiquette"? If you mean the etiquette a man should observe when he beats his wife or cuts the head off an infidel, I guess that would be accurate.
As I'm probably one of the very few who have actually taken the time to read the Bible, Qur'an, and the Torah/Talmud in their entirety, I'd have to disagree as all three have very similar themes being they are all derived from the same original work and belief structure.
In the Torah and the Old Testament, you have the ground work of "this is what happened and how God, man, and the world came to be". Along with a handful of basic rules and guidelines. The Talmud, in my opinion developed as what today would be called an expansion pack, which then expounded and extrapolated God's will and desires as seen by the Jewish people. Basically a book of civil and religious laws more or less, although I'm sure Talmudic scholars will disagree.
From here we get the Bible which broke from seeing God as a vengeful or even as some have characterized an angry God of the Jews and see God as the God of all mankind. It offers both etiquette and civility, as its tenets are more along the lines of peace, forgiveness, tolerance, and all those bleeding heart liberal qualities we have come to love. The Qur'an is much the same in concept but where it breaks from the Christian idea that God is the loving God of all men, "the meek shall inherit the earth", with a more male and patriarchal dominated society. What laws God didn't give, he wanted men to interpret and enforce upon women and children as well as those who didn't believe in the God of Abraham, the heathens and pagans.
One irony is that among orthodox Jews and more fundamentalist Muslims, they share a common belief that Christians have watered down and turned their religion into a buffet or all you can eat salad bar in which you pick and choose which parts you want to believe on your plate and discard the rest. There was a great piece on this in Haaretz not long ago about the conflict between orthodox Jews views of that of the American reform Jews, as being rather buffet like, and their fears of watering down Judaism in Israel. As currently Israel is making a hard right turn towards religious fundamentalism as we speak and even Newsweek ran an article about the Israeli military becoming more fundamentalist.
Christians are a rather odd man out, as you started with Catholicism and then it's structures were diluted in the reformation which removed much of the former pageantry. It then has fragmented into countless sects from Baptist to Methodist, to Presbyterian, to Mormonism, to whatever your heart can imagine. They all have the same book but have picked and chosen which aspects of the original work they wish to believe, then condemn everyone not like them as heathen like. Funny isn't it. Today Christianity isn't even about civility, its about religion al a carte' or individualism religion where anyone can pick the flavor they want, some more civil some more rule and structure oriented.
It may have been you who posted this prior but I always found that bit by Emo Phillips to be rather profoundly accurate as far as how any religious people see the world.
As I'm probably one of the very few who have actually taken the time to read the Bible, Qur'an, and the Torah/Talmud in their entirety, I'd have to disagree as all three have very similar themes being they are all derived from the same original work and belief structure.
As one would expect I'd certainly disagree. The level of complexity of the Bible compared to the koran is just astounding.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper
As I'm probably one of the very few who have actually taken the time to read the Bible, Qur'an, and the Torah/Talmud in their entirety, I'd have to disagree as all three have very similar themes being they are all derived from the same original work and belief structure.
As one would expect I'd certainly disagree. The level of complexity of the Bible compared to the koran is just astounding.
Such as? Few examples?
If I were to go to a remote tribe in the Amazon jungle and pull some given belief structure, then ask someone from an opposing tribe what they think of Jungle Joe's sacred beliefs I would expect to get the same "opinion" as I would if I were in Dallas, TX and I asked fans which team they thought was better, the Cowboys or the Redskins.
Same pretty much holds true for religion, as everyone who adjoins with a particular faith will see their own faith as better, more complex, nuanced and "perfected", thus superior than others.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell
What original work are you referring to?
In this case, the Torah and Old Testament. However, even these religious texts are based upon even earlier works and beliefs, but for the sake of this discussion, need to have a starting point, might as well be here.
"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy." Genesis 7:4
God kills 70,000 people because of Davids mistake (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)
The bible tells people to kill non believers.
Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Need I continue?
The bible is just as bloody and evil and written by lunatics, just like the Qu'ran
"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy." Genesis 7:4
God kills 70,000 people because of Davids mistake (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)
The bible tells people to kill non believers.
Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Need I continue?
The bible is just as bloody and evil and written by lunatics, just like the Qu'ran
The koran is a collection of mindless babblings by a madman. The Bible is 66 books written by different authors at different times, all in agreement.
The koran has some definite problems to it. For instance, it teaches that a man's "seed" comes from his chest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy." Genesis 7:4
God kills 70,000 people because of Davids mistake (1 Chronicles 21:9-14 WEB)
The bible tells people to kill non believers.
Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Need I continue?
The bible is just as bloody and evil and written by lunatics, just like the Qu'ran
The Bible records things that happened---it doesn't tell Christians to carry out the violence. Those commands were given to ancient Israel, not modern-day Christians. There is a difference. We're under a different covenant now, in a different setting. Much, much different time. The koran doesn't allow for this sort of progression, though.
Having said that, was God wrong for those things?
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