Who supports a new 9/11 investigation and why or why not? (party, security)

[GuyNTexas]

Originally Posted by NYChistorygal

Tex: have you ever been to NYC? I sincerely suggest that you come here. Hang out in the downtown area during a normal morning rush hour, from 7:00 am to 10:00 am. Walk around the shorelines and notice how close the east side is to Brooklyn and Queens the and west side is to New Jersey. Take the Staten Island ferry. Look at the area. See all those boats, ships, ferries and pleasure boats in the water - all of whom have a lovely view of downtown Manhattan.

Well, it's like this ... I'm an east coaster .. and have spent considerable time in NYC ...I've been on the ferry and experienced the gorgeous views ... both summer and winter. And there is nothing quite like the dogs and kraut steaming on the street side carts on a cold winter day. I've dined at great little Italy restaurants, and finished off dinner with cannolis and an espresso at Farrars (sp?) afterward. Believe it or not, I've actually been in both of the Towers!!! Imagine that! I remember ... though not exactly which trip or what year ... buying a lotto ticket in the plaza underneath the WTC. This was notable to me because it just so happened that this particular lottery was one of the biggest in NY history at the time (1980's), as I recall ... about 40 Million. Back in those days, you got two numbers for a dollar ... an A & B chance. I wound up with all 6 numbers, 3 on the A, and 3 on the B. Wasn't worth a dime, but I actually did have all six numbers on that 1 dollar ticket. So yes, I'm somewhat familiar with the city ... I spent upwards of 60 weeks in NJ over a 4 year period for "education" ... and most weekends were spent in the city. from Greenwich Village to China Town ... I'm not a local ... but I've spent a little time there.

And I've had a couple of very close friends that were born and raised Bronx, hard core NYC boys ... fact is, we're still close though rarely get a chance to speak, let alone see one another these days. But I did talk with them a few years back ... guess what? They knew back then that 911 was a BS story ... and they told me that the majority of the NYPD cops know it ... the NYFD firemen know it .. everybody knows it!!!

How do you like them apples?

Originally Posted by NYChistorygal

Now after absorbing all of that, consider what that would look like after the first plane hit. Most of those people would have stopped dead in their tracks, instead of continuing on to their destinations. Others would run there to see what happened. Some Emergency workers could be there in mere minutes, coming on subways or by foot from nearly hospitals.

Consider the thousands of local residents, some living right across the street. Some of them would certainly leave their buildings to see what was happening.

Consider people working in the WFC and surrounding buildings. They too would leave their buildings, or arrive in the area and stay on the streets, not knowing what to do, or where to go. People who worked in nearby buildings didn't bother to go to work. They waited to see what they should do.

All these people would have seen the second plane.

Like I said ... I've spent considerable time in the city ... and I'd say that from the street level, unless you were in a particularly advantageous spot, you'd never know that the WTC towers were even there. That's the thing with NYC ... so many tall buildings ... you'd not be able to see the towers from the ground at 95% of the places one might be standing in Manhattan. So, for those unfamiliar ... it's a myth that EVERYONE in NYC had this birds eye view of the Towers. You could be as far as 50 blocks away and catch a peak .. or 5 blocks away and not see a thing. That's a fact. You could literally be 5 blocks away and not know which direction to walk toward the Towers if you didn't know where you were going.

Originally Posted by NYChistorygal

I don't need VIDEOS. That is the point.

I'm sure you don't. No need for evidence ... when the belief is so strong, aye?

Look ... there are Millions of people convinced that planes hit the Towers. Not a single one of them actually saw a passenger jet hit the towers because not one actually did.

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by DifferentDrum

Overexposed? JUST the "buildings" are "over exposed"- not the sky- which actually looks darker than the one on the right, and not the "plane", just the "buildings'?. mmm-K

Yes.

Do we add photography to the list of things you guys apparently known nothing about?

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by DifferentDrum

They were not exactly "white" of course- maybe more silvery appearing in sunlight. You can clearly see a side in the sun and a side in the shade in the photo below. And if the photo below, for example, was overexposed- the WHOLE photo would be overexposed, unless some of the elements were inserted/photoshopped.

Wrong again, Ranger.

[HistorianDude]

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

And the Scholars for 911 truth ... and the Architects and Engineers for 911 truth, and the Pilots for 911 truth.

Most of who are demonstrably commenting on things that are as outside their competence as they are of a jewelers. This becomes evident when you scratch the veneers and look at exactly who most of these people actually are.

But the irony here is your repeated attempt to dismiss the arguments of people who clearly know more than you do (and who are demonstrably more honest and rational) by bloviating about their "credibility."

You... the guy who can't tell the difference between a "thermic lance" and anything that actually has something to do with thermite.

You... the guy who insists that molten aluminum always looks "silvery."

You... the guy who apparently knows less about DNA analysis than the average adolescent fan of stupid TV cop shows like CSI.

You... the guy who actually had the temerity to insist that because he was a jeweler he could perform miracles of long distance metallurgical analysis that no competent metallurgist would pretend.

You are the guy on this thread... so you are the one whose history of incompetent and idiotic falsehoods are being dissected. When those other guys show up, we'll give them the same loving attention.

Originally Posted by GuyNTexas

A rather large and growing bunch. Methinks you are way out numbered!

Do we need to do the math again to point out the tiny fraction of genuine professionals in relevant fields that agree with you? I mean, slaying the already slain is what we do here.

So we can if you need us to.

[DifferentDrum]

Originally Posted by DifferentDrum

Can we trust the sun?

"CONFLICTING SUNLIGHT
One of the unshakable certainties we have on this planet: The sun does not lie. Here we have two different "amateur" pictures depicting practically the same moment in time. All we have to look at are the North sides of the WTC towers: In one shot they bask in sunlight - in the other they are in shade. Both cannot be real."
SeptemberClues.info | The Central Role of the News Media on 9/11

And the blackest of black smoke was not affected by this "overexposure"? I'd say some techie used a WTC shot that was taken in the sun as his model- ooops.

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by DifferentDrum

And the blackest of black smoke was not affected by this "overexposure"? I'd say some techie used a WTC shot that was taken in the sun as his model- ooops.

You obviously know nothing about photography.... Overexposure effects the highlights of the subject.....The lighter the color the more apt it is to be blown and detail lost in the lighter areas, so no the smoke could not be effected unless all detail was lost in the rest of the image.

[workingclasshero]

the 'shaddows' are not really an issue. first it is a shiny surface that looks bright/dull depending on the angle














and let's not forget that the plane parts were found

[shorebaby]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Most of who are demonstrably commenting on things that are as outside their competence as they are of a jewelers. This becomes evident when you scratch the veneers and look at exactly who most of these people actually are.

But the irony here is your repeated attempt to dismiss the arguments of people who clearly know more than you do (and who are demonstrably more honest and rational) by bloviating about their "credibility."

You... the guy who can't tell the difference between a "thermic lance" and anything that actually has something to do with thermite.

You... the guy who insists that molten aluminum always looks "silvery."

You... the guy who apparently knows less about DNA analysis than the average adolescent fan of stupid TV cop shows like CSI.

You... the guy who actually had the temerity to insist that because he was a jeweler he could perform miracles of long distance metallurgical analysis that no competent metallurgist would pretend.

You are the guy on this thread... so you are the one whose history of incompetent and idiotic falsehoods are being dissected. When those other guys show up, we'll give them the same loving attention.


Do we need to do the math again to point out the tiny fraction of genuine professionals in relevant fields that agree with you? I mean, slaying the already slain is what we do here.

So we can if you need us to.

Do you spend your days arguing with the guy talking to himself and drooling on the street corner? I think you are doing the equivalent here.

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by shorebaby

Do you spend your days arguing with the guy talking to himself and drooling on the street corner? I think you are doing the equivalent here.

Give the Dude some credit.

He spends his days in charge of U.S. Government Smoke and Mirrors Division.

Extelligence in Summary Academics.

He founded the ESA.

A division of NSA.

National Scamming Agency.

[GuyNTexas]

Originally Posted by HistorianDude

Do we need to do the math again to point out the tiny fraction of genuine professionals in relevant fields that agree with you? I mean, slaying the already slain is what we do here.

So we can if you need us to.

Who's we? You got a mouse in your pocket? "We" know who YOU are!

And your scamming and tactics have been fully exposed.

1,429 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 11,214 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.

AE911Truth.org


Pilots For 9/11 Truth

Veterans for 911 Truth, Operation Vigilant Truth

Scholars for 9/11 Truth - Home

Former CIA and top official speak openly about 911


And let's take a look at some notable individuals who are exposing the 911 lies:

Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.

William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.
Robert David Steele (Vivas) – U.S. Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer for twenty years. Second-ranking civilian (GS-14) in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence from 1988 - 1992 and a member of the Adjunct Faculty of Marine Corps University. Also former clandestine services case officer with the CIA. 25-year U.S. military and intelligence career.

Melvin A. Goodman, PhD – Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 - 1976.

Robert Baer – Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in the Middle East, Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year CIA veteran.

Michael Levine – Former Senior DEA investigator. 25-year DEA career. Former DEA Country Attaché, Argentina and Uruguay (1979 - 1982). Former DEA Special Operations Officer, worldwide.

Coleen Rowley – Former Special Agent and Minneapolis Division Counsel, FBI. 24-year FBI career. Agent Rowley was noted for revealing FBI headquarters' efforts to "throw up roadblocks and undermine" FBI field investigations of Al Qaeda operatives in the four weeks prior to 9/11.

Robert G. Wright, Jr. – Special Agent, International Terrorism Unit, FBI. The only FBI agent to seize terrorist funds (over $1.4 million) from U.S.-based Middle Eastern terrorists using federal civil forfeiture statutes, prior to 9/11. 17-year FBI veteran.

Bogdan Dzakovic – Witness before the 9/11 Commission. 14-year Counter-terrorism expert in the Security Division of the Federal Aviation Administration. Team Leader of the FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team, which conducted undercover tests on airport security through simulated terrorist attacks. Former Team Leader in the Federal Air Marshal program.

Steve Elson – Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy, DEA and FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security. Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA. Retired Navy SEAL.

Sgt. Chadwick Brooks and Sgt. William Lagasse – U.S. Pentagon Police Department officers, who were on duty at or near the CITGO gas station on 9/11 and eyewitnesses to the approach of Flight 77 and its alleged impact at the Pentagon.

Edward J. Costello, Jr. – Former Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. Former Judge pro tem., Los Angeles, CAA.

John M. Cole – Former Intelligence Operations Specialist, in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division. In charge of FBI’s foreign intelligence investigations covering India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.18-year FBI career.

Mark Conrad, JD – Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs, responsible for the internal integrity and security for areas encompassing nine states and two foreign locations. Former Federal Sky Marshall. 27-year U.S. Customs career. Currently Associate General Counsel, National Association of Federal Agents.

Rosemary N. Dew – Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence, FBI. Former member of The President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory Committee (NSTAC) and the Electronic Commerce/Cyber Crime Working Group. 13-year FBI career.
Steve Elson – Former Special Agent with the U.S. Navy and the FAA. Specialist in Counterterrorism, Intelligence, and Security. Twenty-two years military experience, primarily in Naval Special Warfare and nine years Federal service with the FAA and DEA. Retired Navy SEAL.

David Forbes – Former head of Thames Valley Police Fraud Squad, trained at New Scotland Yard. Over 30 years experience in law enforcement.

Gilbert M. Graham – Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI. 24-year FBI career.

Diane Kleiman – Former Special Agent, US Customs.

Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.

Lynne A. Larkin – Former CIA Operations Officer. Served in several CIA foreign stations and in the CIA's counter-intelligence center helping chair a multi-agency task force and seminars on coordinating intelligence among intelligence and crime prevention agencies.

David MacMichael, PhD – Former Senior Estimates Officer with special responsibility for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the CIA's National Intelligence Council. Former Captain, U.S. Marine Corps.

Jane A. Turner – Retired Special Agent, FBI. 24-year FBI career.


John B. Vincent – Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI. 27-year FBI career.


Fred Whitehurst, JD, PhD – Retired Supervisory Special Agent / Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer.

Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) – Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat. Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves. She was a member of the International law team in Operation Urgent Fury in Grenada and served in Panama and Somalia. She joined the Foreign Service in 1987 and served as Deputy Chief of Mission of U.S. Embassies in Sierra Leone, Micronesia and Afghanistan. She helped reopen the US Embassy in Kabul in December, 2001. One of three U.S. State Department officials to publicly resign in direct protest of the invasion of Iraq in March, 2003.

Matthew J. Zipoli – Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE. Vice President, Security Police Officer's Association, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. European Command

Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984. Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and Development Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart).

Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. 22-year Air Force career.

Col. George Nelson, MBA, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. Graduate, U.S. Air Force War College. 34-year Air Force career. Licensed commercial pilot. Licensed airframe and power plant mechanic.

Col. Ann Wright, U.S. Army (ret) – Retired Army officer and former U.S. Diplomat. Served 13 years on active duty with the U.S. Army and 16 years in the U.S. Army Reserves.

Col. James R. Uhl, MD, MC, U.S. Army (ret) – Retired Army physician. Served in several theaters of operations, from Viet Nam through Iraq. Former Member, Certification in Military Medicine Working Group. 38-year Army career.

Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Retired U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. 20-year Marine Corps career.

Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force career.

Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Retired U.S. Air Force fighter pilot (F-111, F-15E, F-16, B-1, F-18, Mig-29, and Suu-22). Flew combat missions over Iraq. Former instructor at the USAF Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program. 20-year Air Force career.

Lt. Col. Jeff Latas, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former combat fighter pilot. Aerospace engineer. Currently Captain at a major airline. Combat experience includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle and General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark fighter/bomber. Former President, U.S. Air Force Accident Investigation Board.

Commander Ted Muga, U.S. Navy (ret) – Retired Naval aviator (Grumman E-1 and E-2). Retired Pan-Am commercial airline pilot (Boeing 707 and 727).

Commander Ralph Kolstad, U.S. Navy (ret) – Retired fighter pilot. Former Air Combat Instructor, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School (Topgun). 20-year Navy career. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, and Grumman F-14 Tomcat. Retired commercial airline captain with 27 years experience. Aircraft flown: Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100. 23,000+ total hours flown.

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. Retired commercial pilot. Flew for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Aircraft flown: Boeing 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777. 30,000+ total hours flown. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines aircraft that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC).

I'll stop here .... there are many many more.