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I'm merely pointing out that eyewitness claims can be faulty or fraudulent. And AGAIN ... there are no documented "THOUSANDS". That number of witnesses is pure speculation without a shred of evidence to support it. You cannot even show me 100 testimonies, let alone THOUSANDS.
I can't believe someone could actually write this with a straight face. You REALLY need to take a trip to New York City, dude. Or at least do some Internet research, or read actual books, that aren't tied to the conspiracy industry.
And you haven't looked very hard if you can't find 100 testimonies, lolol.
Hey OP--do you still have any questions as to why no one is taking requests for a new investigation seriously? Statements such as the one I copied above are, frankly, retarded. No one is EVER going to listen to anything your group says as long as you continue to promote this sort of alternate reality business. Yes, I know the robotic canned response--that I am an Internet poster who could be saying anything I want to. But the fact remains that the WTC survivors organization REALLY does exist, and people from the 9/11 community REALLY do run the WTC Tribute Center, and people who survived the attacks REALLY are working on the WTC construction project, and it wouldn't REALLY take much of an effort to find these people in real life and speak with them--if you REALLY wanted to.
There you go again .... "no one takes seriously ....." I got news for you ... look at the top of your page ... over 30% take it seriously here on CD. That number is larger in general polls ... probably due to the lack of shills with multiple screen names skewing the numbers.
Furthermore, the existence of victims doesn't confirm the validity of the official conspiracy theory, nor does it confirm the existence of planes. The buildings suffered explosions, fire and collapse and people were injured and killed. Who is responsible for this is the question ... not if it happened. So your fraud straw man argument insinuating that is another transparent diversion.
The statement you claim "retarded" is actually quite accurate and true, and you'd have to be retarded not to recognize that. Amongst your own "Eyewitnesses" there are several stories, from seeing no plane at all (just explosions) to seeing and hearing missiles ... small planes ... planes that didn't look like normal planes, to the real incredible stories of those who in a split second identified the plane's type and airline carrier. Some of these "eyewitnesses" are such absurdly obvious frauds, they ought to be slapped.
But at the end of the day, the "live" network videos ... and the so called amateur videos that emerged later all have one thing in common ... every single one of them are as phony as a 3 dollar bill .... many of them so badly faked that those who refuse to acknowledge it are either being paid to promote the official story, or are too stupid to tie their own shoes.
Some of the posters here fall into the latter category, evidenced by their inability to grasp simple concepts such as the foolishness of accepting everything government officials present at face value, and using one phony baloney piece of evidence to support another. But others are obvious frauds, promoting obvious lies, employing obvious tactics. And yes, pertaining to 911, there are A LOT OF THEM. A lot of people participating in this total fraud against the American people and the world. And it shouldn't come as any surprise, given the degradation of integrity we see everyday .... people will do anything for money. And it shouldn't be surprising that a large segment would believe these cockamamie, fabricated videos and stories given the relative intelligence of a population who finds "Family Guy", "The Simpson's", "American Idol", and "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" as primary sources of entertainment.
A large cross-section of the public prove their total absence of intelligence every day in the constant Left-Right ... Democrat-Republican blame game, apparently oblivious to the reality that both sides are equally responsible, and are operating collectively against the public interests, with too few having a clue.
But let me assure you .... neither you nor anyone else here have a leg to stand on credibility wise, when you make such absurd insinuations that all issues and questions have been adequately addressed by these OBVIOUS fake videos ... obvious lies ... constantly changing stories .... and incalculable list of inconsistencies.
And I can also assure you that I couldn't care less about personal insults hurled by shills and nitwits. Every time this occurs, what little credibility you have left takes another big hit.
So keep it up ... keep making the ridiculous claims that these videos of planes "melting" into steel structures are legitimate. Keep claiming that foreground fixed structures can move from one side of the landscape to the other side in two separate videos of the same relative action and angle. Keep claiming that backgrounds can move dramatically at the same time foregrounds remain stationary and fixed. Keep claiming that that aluminum airplanes can crash through steel and concrete structures, emerging out of the other side intact.
The more you do ... the more obvious your lack of credibility.
Hello all! My computer crashed and then Mom's internet went out, so I'm trying to catch up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
NO !!!!!!! Rational people KNOW that throwing an aluminum can against a steel wall .... AT ANY VELOCITY ... will produce a flattened can with minimal damage to the steel wall.
That's likely why aluminum bullets aren't very popular .... that's why armor piercing munitions are created ... because heavy gauge steel is highly resistant to penetration.
I've actually heard people claim that the exterior wall was made of thin steel 1/4 to 3/8 " thick .... TOTAL NONSENSE. The exterior walls of the WTC were made up of 5,828 prefabricated panels, each 10' x 36' weighing 22 tons EACH, constructed of individual box columns 14" by 3" thick steel plate connected together with steel plate spandrels. The floors were 4" steel reinforced concrete slabs laid atop 1 1/2 steel plate floor pan, reinforced with steel trusses underneath.
Anyone who thinks that an aluminum plane nose will slice through structural steel that is for all intent and purpose is STEEL ARMOR PLATE, vertically, or that the even lighter aluminum wings will slice through that wall AND ALSO penetrate horizontally through 5 floors of 1 1/2 inch steel plate/4 inches of reinforced concrete flooring, disappearing completely into the structure, are TOTALLY OUT OF THEIR MINDS, lacking the intellectual capacity of a potted plant.
The towers didn't have solid steel walls. A large part was glass or aluminum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
What "thousands" saw any planes except as TV viewers via the complicit media?? The people reporting passenger planes were 99.9% media figures and "man on the street amateur videos" have been shown to be frauds. The very few on the street that we heard from saw or heard everything from a small plane to a prop plane to a military plane to a missile to a passenger plane to no plane at all.
There were not only no real planes at the Pentagon and Shanksville, there were no real planes at the WTCs either so there were no real passengers. But you have to study and GET that there were no planes before your belief matrix will allow you to go there as regards the alleged passengers. There is plenty of information that has recently emerged.
"THE 16-SECOND 'MAGIC SEQUENCE'
This is the 16-second sequence of the "second airplane approach" These four clips are the ONLY LIVE IMAGES (of the alleged "Flight 175") still to be found on the official 9/11 TV archives. I have put them together sequentially to highlight this 'curious coincidence': Is it plausible that 4 cameramen just happened to film a 'slice' of the full airplane approach, all 4 'slices' then combining into a seamless, full 'airplane approach sequence'? Or is this - more plausibly perhaps - a prefabricated sequence of computer-animated imagery ?
The full sequence of the four 'plane approach' shots breaks down in this way:
-16sec to -15sec : "DIVEBOMBER"(cbs)
-15sec to -7sec : "THE BALL"(nbc)
-7sec to -4sec : "THE WINGTIP"(cbs)
-3sec to 0sec : "INTERNATIONAL SHOT"(abc)
In the real world, the odds for this sequence to occur are, of course, astronomically remote. Much as the endless string of bizarre 'coincidences' pushed by the official 9/11 storyline, this extraordinary occurrence challenges our very limits of credulity. "
See the videos referred to above plus more analysis at:
Ummm, thousands, even tens of thousands, of people were on the street; downtown and midtown Manhattan, New Jersey, Brooklyn, Queens, Governors Island and even Staten Island's North Shore would easily see the planes. And they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
No, I am not trying to tell you personally anything. You are obviously not interested in studying the photos and videos. That's fine. But some readers here might be interested in looking at this new information- and deciding for themselves.
Maybe that's because those of us who saw and/or know people who saw the planes, don't NEED to see videos. WE WERE THERE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero
I dont need to 'study' ..'photos' and 'videos' I saw the plane (the second one)( the first one I was still on my comute) hit the tower IN PERSON, live in the air, not through a screen
sorry you cant figure that out
Very thick skulls?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
You are an anonymous poster, as I am and as is everyone here. Although I take personal anecdotal information into consideration as to how it stacks up against publicly sourced information, common sense, or my own personal experience- whatever the case may be- anonymous anecdotes on their own can certainly not be taken as truth or facts- ever.
Then share your personal experience. How close to the towers were you when the planes hit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang
Thats all part of the conspiracy!!! Clinton hired the same undercover explosives company to plant the 1993 WTC bomb in the parking garage so that when the US govt imploded the buildings in 2001, they could pretend like it was the terrorists again and people would believe them.
I don't understand how anyone can believe the official story. Believing that terrorists learned how to fly and then hijacked 4 planes makes no sense. Believing that thousands and thousands of people cooperated in an intensely complex plot to use remote control planes and a missile against the country and nobody told the plot is much easier to believe. The truth is, the technology used to implode the buildings was given to us by the aliens who landed in Roswell. They made a deal with us that if they gave us the technology to secretly implode the twin towers in 2001, we would give them Elvis after his career reached its peak.
Tell me, why didn't 'they' collapse the towers in 1993?
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero
right because you want to make a 20 ft conctrete reinforce wall, in you video to equate to this
notice how hollow the towers ACTUALLY are
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
Are you sure you want to "go there"? Because you are going to paint yourself into a corner and have to support the idea of a controlled demolition.
Cartoon plane, missile, real plane, no plane- does it matter in the argument if this was a controlled demo? And it clearly WAS a controlled demo. And certainly the fake video of planes DOES matter in the final understanding of how we were duped. But if you can't "see" the digitally inserted planes- but you CAN see the hollow towers- then we've got a real discussion going on.The plane idea was only a ruse to get us behind the wars.
All buildings are stripped prior to controlled demo.
And where are the contents of the WTCs if they were not removed prior to demo?
There should have been something like:
7,000 Toilets, Sinks, Urinals (1,2,& 7)
45,000 desks
45,000 chairs 245 Acres of Carpeting
40,000 File Cabinets
40,000 Cubicles 75,000 Telephones
50,000 Staplers
20,000 miles of wiring
300 Mainframe computers
45,000 Computer monitors
45,000 Keyboards
45,000 mice/computer aid
650 Fire Extinguishers
3000 Copy Machines
2000 Water Coolers
3000 Printers
20,000 doors
40,000 door knobs 22,000 Stainless Steel Elevator Doors
450 Refrigerators
5000 Snack and Soda vending machines
3000 Wallets & purses
3000 Employee ID cards (Required after 1993 bombing) 3000 Employee personal cell phones __________________ http://letsrollforums.com/wtc-pre-de...-t21572p3.html
Independent researchers are looking into this.
For you New Yorkers: Did you see, or was anybody hit by any shower of telephones, elevator doors, carpeting, refrigerators, miles of wiring- or remnants there of? Do we hear any reports of these items? Do we see any of these items in photos of the debris?
Yes. I don't know if I have it, but I'll try to find it - but I've seen pics of a computer monitor in someone's living room that was from the tower. I've seen other debris as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw
Maybe I missed a leap of logic here, but are you thinking that the tens of thousands of survivors who worked in those buildings every day didn't notice their chairs/carpets/computers/toilets were gone on Sep 11th?
! I think Jen would have notice her desk was gone!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
We were led to believe that many thousands worked there, but is that the truth?
People are going to have to follow up on this new information themselves if they are interested. The information is available for consideration by simply googling, reading, and seeing what you think.
50,000 people worked in the two towers on any given work day. That did not include shopper and tourists.
NYChistorygal........Yes. I don't know if I have it, but I'll try to find it - but I've seen pics of a computer monitor in someone's living room that was from the tower. I've seen other debris as well.
Hilarious!....on sooo many levels.
Do yourself a favor and view the 9/11 video and photo analysis sprinkled throughout this thread for everyone's convenience.
It's not my explanation. The information is available on who rented space and when at the WTCs. FOIA requests have been made, etc.
Other than what we are told- how do we know how many worked there? You have to look at the history and facts about the buildings. Yes, there were a LOT of people daily going to the subway and going to mall and the viewing area etc. so it looked very busy. But do we really know how many actually worked there?
The offices were redone for each new tenant so removal of carpet, furniture, and equipment would be commonplace/unnoticed. Perhaps the last tenant to leave prior to 9/11 was- well, the last tenant to leave. The mall and viewing area were not yet open that morning- removing all of those potential victims from harm- and these are just clues.
If you are really interested then be open to looking at things from a different perspective.
People who are intrigued will follow up of their own volition.
220 floors worth of stuff would not be noticed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
Not at all. Everyone's anecdotes are just that- anecdotes... and we are all anonymous here to boot. I don't expect anyone to believe my anecdotes on an anonymous forum.
I haven't called anyone a liar, nor a figment. Nor have I posted any personal anecdotes on this subject other than what first got me into questioning 9/11- every thing else is from other sources.
I hope you're not a translator for the government!
Yes, you are calling every personal witness a liar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Mind control is a very real thing .... you experience it daily ... and it's a multi-billion dollar business. It's called TV and advertising.
What about the eyewitnesses who saw the planes crash as it happened? BEFORE they ever saw a TV? What about the people in areas of the north and north/east side the South Tower who saw, live, the first plane crash into the North Tower?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
I'm merely pointing out that eyewitness claims can be faulty or fraudulent. And AGAIN ... there are no documented "THOUSANDS". That number of witnesses is pure speculation without a shred of evidence to support it. You cannot even show me 100 testimonies, let alone THOUSANDS.
I can't believe someone could actually write this with a straight face. You REALLY need to take a trip to New York City, dude. Or at least do some Internet research, or read actual books, that aren't tied to the conspiracy industry.
And you haven't looked very hard if you can't find 100 testimonies, lolol.
Hey OP--do you still have any questions as to why no one is taking requests for a new investigation seriously? Statements such as the one I copied above are, frankly, retarded. No one is EVER going to listen to anything your group says as long as you continue to promote this sort of alternate reality business. Yes, I know the robotic canned response--that I am an Internet poster who could be saying anything I want to. But the fact remains that the WTC survivors organization REALLY does exist, and people from the 9/11 community REALLY do run the WTC Tribute Center, and people who survived the attacks REALLY are working on the WTC construction project, and it wouldn't REALLY take much of an effort to find these people in real life and speak with them--if you REALLY wanted to.
Tex: have you ever been to NYC? I sincerely suggest that you come here. Hang out in the downtown area during a normal morning rush hour, from 7:00 am to 10:00 am. Walk around the shorelines and notice how close the east side is to Brooklyn and Queens the and west side is to New Jersey. Take the Staten Island ferry. Look at the area. See all those boats, ships, ferries and pleasure boats in the water - all of whom have a lovely view of downtown Manhattan.
Now after absorbing all of that, consider what that would look like after the first plane hit. Most of those people would have stopped dead in their tracks, instead of continuing on to their destinations. Others would run there to see what happened. Some Emergency workers could be there in mere minutes, coming on subways or by foot from nearly hospitals.
Consider the thousands of local residents, some living right across the street. Some of them would certainly leave their buildings to see what was happening.
Consider people working in the WFC and surrounding buildings. They too would leave their buildings, or arrive in the area and stay on the streets, not knowing what to do, or where to go. People who worked in nearby buildings didn't bother to go to work. They waited to see what they should do.
All these people would have seen the second plane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
Hilarious!....on sooo many levels.
Do yourself a favor and view the 9/11 video and photo analysis sprinkled throughout this thread for everyone's convenience.
Perhaps not. But what would it hurt to watch them, if only just for fun and to be able to bolster your argument with critiques of them? Many of them are the only "live" MSM and "amateur" videos from that day that are still available. I would sincerely like to see someone debunk them.
Perhaps not. But what would it hurt to watch them, if only just for fun and to be able to bolster your argument with critiques of them? Many of them are the only "live" MSM and "amateur" videos from that day that are still available. I would sincerely like to see someone debunk them.
I have watched them.
Two planes hit the WTC.
Jen and Sherri, and all the people on that side of their office, saw the first plane approach from their office window on the 92nd floor of the South Tower. They watched as the plane crashed into the North Tower, and saw it as it turned into a fireball and traveled through the building and burst out the other side, throwing debris and people out of the windows and holes.
Kim watched from directly below the South Tower as the second plane hit. She not only saw, but heard the engines and felt the percussion of the planes. No hologram can replicate that.
Scott's account is very similar to Kim's. He was a little north of Kim when the second plane hit. Both had to run from the debris.
People. Real people. Real people with good eyesight, and hearing. All saw, heard and felt the planes. I trust my friends far more than deluded people watching videos in their basements.
Jen and Sherri, and all the people on that side of their office, saw the first plane approach from their office window on the 92nd floor of the South Tower. They watched as the plane crashed into the North Tower, and saw it as it turned into a fireball and traveled through the building and burst out the other side, throwing debris and people out of the windows and holes.
Kim watched from directly below the South Tower as the second plane hit. She not only saw, but heard the engines and felt the percussion of the planes. No hologram can replicate that.
Scott's account is very similar to Kim's. He was a little north of Kim when the second plane hit. Both had to run from the debris.
People. Real people. Real people with good eyesight, and hearing. All saw, heard and felt the planes. I trust my friends far more than deluded people watching videos in their basements.
Again. No holograms.
Two planes hit the WTC towers.
Correct- no holograms. Who is talking about holograms? What we see in the videos are computer graphic images. The towers actually did come down by controlled demo- but we did not see it as it really happened. We got a movie and a story to go along with it in order to justify 2 wars and allow some fat cats to make off with a huge, huge bundle of money.
We saw a special effects movie with cartoon planes, with moving backgrounds, with "fade to black" crucial moments, with a cartoon plane cutting through a computer generated version of the tower like a hot knife through butter. It traveled through the virtual "building" and THEN there was an explosion.
If you look at the "live" footage, you see a cartoon plane enter, wings and all, then there's an explosion- no explosion on impact- I guess the timing was a little off. Which is why we see the virtual nose come out intact from the other side of the virtual building.
Did you really watch all of the videos on this thread- all the way through?
Says the founder and president of life of "Jewelers for 9/11 Truth.
Is ad hominem your only gig lately? Did the dog eat your talking points?
How about actually viewing the WTC video analysis on this thread and coming back with some comments related to what you see? Attack the message if you can- not the messenger.
Is ad hominem your only gig lately? Did the dog eat your talking points?
It's not an ad hominem. It's irony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DifferentDrum
How about actually viewing the WTC video analysis on this thread and coming back with some comments related to what you see? Attack the message if you can- not the messenger.
I have destroyed "the message" over and over again. All that is genuinely left is mockery.
I have viewed the videos. They do not support your insane conclusions. For just one example:
The "nose" that comes out of the opposite side of the one tower is visible in multiple videos taken from different angles. What does this tell us?
It tells us that among the things it cannot be is a mistake made by people faking a video. Only the insane would argue that the same identical "mistake" was made on more than one video. Instead, the only possible explanation is (Occam's razor again) the simplest one. At that moment, that was the shape of the debris plume that first blew out the windows on that side of the building.
What is most fascinating is how the intensity of Truther ignorance manages to turn even the most ordinary parts of the videos into something they think suspicious.
No explosion on impact? Of course there was no explosion on impact! Before an explosion can occur, there must be something to explode... in this case the vaporized cloud of jet fuel from the shredded fuel tanks and an ignition source. And even then, it takes time for an "ignition front" to pass through the cloud of fuel.
And none of that was present at impact.
Why are Truthers so susceptible to idiocies of the type you spew? Specifically because they are generally jewelers, and dental technicians, and theologians, and bar bouncers.
We know Guy's excuse.
What's yours?
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