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Furthermore, if you look closely, you will see that much of modern Israel is secular. But that is a complete contradiction in terms! That would be like making a "secular mecca!" It makes no sense. If you are a Jew, then you ought to follow the Torah (thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, etc). It's pretty basic stuff, but they don't do it, because they're not interested in it! They only want to take the land from the Palestinians and oppress them. (Not all Jews, of course; I am referring to the Zionists.)
Peace,
brian
Although most Israelis are secular, they aren't interested in oppressing Palestinians or taking their land. They are simply interested in living in the land that they consider their heritage in a safe and secure manner.
Although most Israelis are secular, they aren't interested in oppressing Palestinians or taking their land. They are simply interested in living in the land that they consider their heritage in a safe and secure manner.
So what was wrong with how things were before 1948? They seemed to get along quite well back then!
Also, what heritage do Israelis have if they are secular? That's like a pagan who takes communion!
So what was wrong with how things were before 1948? They seemed to get along quite well back then!
Also, what heritage do Israelis have if they are secular? That's like a pagan who takes communion!
Peace,
brian
What was wrong before 1948 is that the British governed the land as a territory. In fact many zionists in the early 1900's were interested in a cooperative form of self rule with the Arabs.
Jewish heritage goes further than simply following rules set forth in an ancient book. This might be something you or I don't understand as outsiders but this is the reason why there are so many secular Jews also here in the US. Their notion of what is a Jew is different from your definition of what is a Christian.
What was wrong before 1948 is that the British governed the land as a territory. In fact many zionists in the early 1900's were interested in a cooperative form of self rule with the Arabs.
Jewish heritage goes further than simply following rules set forth in an ancient book. This might be something you or I don't understand as outsiders but this is the reason why there are so many secular Jews also here in the US. Their notion of what is a Jew is different from your definition of what is a Christian.
I agree with your first paragraph.
My point about Jewish heritage, is that the very word "Jewish" denotes adherance to and acceptance of the Torah and God's commandments. If you reject those teachings, then you are not a Jew. -Or if nothing else, you are a "disobedient Jew," and looking at how disobedience was dealt with in the Old Testament, I don't think that's a road anyone would want to take.
In America, a person is American if they are born there. Judaism and being Jewish is related solely to the Torah and God. That is why the Jews have existed for 2,000 years in exile. Their identity has always been a religious identity. Nationalism has nothing to do with Judaism.
So someone who is interested in "heritage" can study it in a library or museum. They certainly don't need to uproot the Palestinians in order to learn about heritage, anymore than the native americans need to remove NYC in order to learn about their heritage!
(Interestingly, many faithful Jews maintain that they are still in exile, and that their religion forbids the creation of a state. They are serious about their religion, and serious about peace in the Middle East. It's coherent.)
But the secular nationalists (Zionists) are not Jews. They are only nationalists.
Christianity is the same way. Jesus told the people, "look, if you don't do what I tell you to do, then you're not my disciples, even if you say that you are. You can fool yourself and others, but not me."
We're coming back to the same points discussed in other threads. It is wrong to compare Palestinians to Native Americans. When Native Americans came to North America there were no others. The same cannot be said of the Arabs who conquered Palestine, and indeed the rest of the Middle East. Add that to the fact that many Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are descendants of Arab immigrants from other countries during British and Turkish rule.
Regarding the second part of your post, prior to the establishment of Israel, Jews were Palestinians. "Palestinian" would have described anyone living in the British territory of Palestine. The Jerusalem Post, a Jewish newspaper, was called Palestine Post.
Anyway the Jews and Arabs were fighting well before the creation of the state.
Unlike some frauds posting in this thread, this person actually knows what they are talking about.
What was wrong before 1948 is that the British governed the land as a territory. In fact many zionists in the early 1900's were interested in a cooperative form of self rule with the Arabs.
Why even bother responding to the clueless / jew-haters?
A person who claims and believes that there was peaces in the middle east before 1948 between jews and arabs, between arabs and christians, between sunni and shia, between persian and arab, between maronite and muslims, etc., has NO CLUE.
If you reject those teachings, then you are not a Jew. -Or if nothing else, you are a "disobedient Jew,"
I have this poster on Ignore, and for good reason.
There seems to be a consistent topic across the web discussion forums that the jew-haters seem to pretend that they are more knowledgeable about judaism than the jews, and that they can decide for jews not only who is a jew, but whether the religion itself allows for the existence of israel. Hilarious.
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Judaism and being Jewish is related solely to the Torah and God. That is why the Jews have existed for 2,000 years in exile. Their identity has always been a religious identity. Nationalism has nothing to do with Judaism.
Proving my point above nicely, and of course with no facts or a clue...
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They certainly don't need to uproot the Palestinians
Repeating the same lies over and over only weakens your nonsensical, stupid posts.
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Interestingly, many faithful Jews maintain that they are still in exile, and that their religion forbids the creation of a state.
No doubt you've polled thousands of jews - and will respond to my point with a link to the NK...can you be more clueless?
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But the secular nationalists (Zionists) are not Jews. They are only nationalists.
So now you speak for millions, and get to decide who they are and what they are allowed to believe in? Are you 6 or 7 years old?
A person who claims and believes that there was peaces in the middle east before 1948 between jews and arabs, between arabs and christians, between sunni and shia, between persian and arab, between maronite and muslims, etc., has NO CLUE.
Who gives a **** if there was...getting rid of the Israel problem won't solve every problem in the ME, but it will solve a very salient and intractable one. And the only one in which we (Americans) are deeply involved.
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