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Isaiah 45:12, “I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...”
This does not describe the creation of space during the Big Bang?
No. It does not. In fact, the Big Bang is in detail a direct contradiction of both of the Genesis creation myths.
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Originally Posted by momonkey
As for the rest of this person's interpretation, he seems to be trying to argue visions, dreams and prophesies as literal accounts of actual events rather than representative and symbolic.
You seem to be missing the point. The author (the late Bob Schadewald, a personal friend) did not believe any of those things. None of them were his interpretation. They were his explication of the position of Bible-believing flat earthers... folks who as recently as the 1930s were significant enough to have the most powerful radio station in North America.
I still possess several old issues of the Flat-Earth News from the 1980s. It was no different from creationism. Just more conservative.
These are your religious and philosophical brethren. Of course, they reject you as hopelessly liberal.
Last edited by HistorianDude; 02-23-2011 at 09:30 AM..
That would be lumped in with the "not". It's been disproved.
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Many times. You make, and will make if you stay in this thread, the exact same fallacious arguments, no matter how often they are refuted.
This is what Creationists do.
I'm not the one that claims that we evolved from something that evolved from something that evolved from a rock. (intentional hyperbole).
You're the one that claims that something can't come from nothing....unless we're talking of how to defend your intellectually bankrupt theory. It's what evolutionists do. I expect you do.
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Your kettle is empty. My pot is full of evidence.
You should take a better look...I think you lost a bit from it.
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Yes we have. And you've been directed to it many times, I expect.
Saying it isn't going to make it so. You need to actually to prove your dopey claims.
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Except I have evidence, and you don't. I have hypotheses that have been validated.
You don't even have one that can be tested for validity.
Prove the universe came from nothing. Prove we evolved from some primitive life form. Prove we started as amoebas millions of years before. You can't, and you won't. You'll instead call me some kind of mental midget because I can't understand your completely insane fairy tale.
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All forms are transitional. When you figure out what that means in regards to the fossil record, get back to me.
Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them that have been found. There are massive gaping holes in teh record.
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And you've already proved my prediction true.
There is no score. There is no game.
There are the educated, the innocently ignorant, and the willfully ignorant.
The question is which is which? I'm not the one believing the fairy tale.
That would be lumped in with the "not". It's been disproved.
I'm not the one that claims that we evolved from something that evolved from something that evolved from a rock. (intentional hyperbole).
You're the one that claims that something can't come from nothing....unless we're talking of how to defend your intellectually bankrupt theory. It's what evolutionists do. I expect you do.
You should take a better look...I think you lost a bit from it.
Saying it isn't going to make it so. You need to actually to prove your dopey claims.
Prove the universe came from nothing. Prove we evolved from some primitive life form. Prove we started as amoebas millions of years before. You can't, and you won't. You'll instead call me some kind of mental midget because I can't understand your completely insane fairy tale.
Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them that have been found. There are massive gaping holes in teh record.
The question is which is which? I'm not the one believing the fairy tale.
God did not create the universe, says Hawking
He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."
In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God.
"That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.
My question is why do the people who deny creation get so huffy and riled up that others believe?
Why can't they believe what they want and let others believe as they will. Why do they have to, as exemplifed on so many threads on CD, have to attack and demean believers?
So much anger.
That would be lumped in with the "not". It's been disproved.
Really?
SHOW US. Show us this "proof."
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I'm not the one that claims that we evolved from something that evolved from something that evolved from a rock. (intentional hyperbole).
Again, we have evidence to support that hypothesis.
Where is your evidence to support yours? Can you even come up with one that can be validated?
No, you can't.
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You're the one that claims that something can't come from nothing....unless we're talking of how to defend your intellectually bankrupt theory. It's what evolutionists do. I expect you do.
Thanks for demonstrating once again that you have almost no understanding of the topic.
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You should take a better look...I think you lost a bit from it.
Saying it isn't going to make it so. You need to actually to prove your dopey claims.
It's already been done, many times over. The only issue left is what the hell is wrong with Creaionists that they don't understand logic and evidence?
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Prove the universe came from nothing.
It didn't. Straw man argument again. No one claims this except people like you.
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Prove we evolved from some primitive life form.
Your use of the word "primitive" once again evidences a serious misunderstanding of evolution. See the attached pic at the bottom of this post, to learn why this way of thinking about it is just plain wrong.
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Prove we started as amoebas millions of years before. You can't, and you won't.
We haven't researched the genome THAT far back yet, but we have gotten it all the way back to early apes. That process, ERV's specifically, has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that we share a common ancestor with other primates.
Again, there is no debate anymore, just curiosity about what is different about the Creationist brain that leads them to deny reality so vehemently.
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You'll instead call me some kind of mental midget because I can't understand your completely insane fairy tale.
You cannot understand the science. That much is abundantly clear from your posts. Moreover, you REFUSE to understand it. You are willfully ignorant.
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Unfortunately, there aren't enough of them that have been found. There are massive gaping holes in teh record.
Again, thanks for proving for us all that you have no idea what you are talking about. Scientists will never find a fossil of every generation of every creature that ever lived, which is the standard you try to set here.
Problem is, they don't need to. They didn't need to even before we developed genetics to the point where we can actually look back in time in our own DNA and see, directly and unambiguously, where we split off from our cousins, the chimps and bonobos and gorillas. And we are looking further back still. And guess what?
Everything they find validates evolution. Only the ignorant or dishonest can deny it is a fact any more.
Which are you? I know what Ken Ham is.
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The question is which is which? I'm not the one believing the fairy tale.
Because you either cannot understand the science, or because you refuse to.
that can no more prove what caused the big bang then a creationist can prove it.
"Proof" is a pointless canard. There is no such thing as proof. For anything.
There is only greater or lesser confidence based on evidence and reasoning.
There is evidence for one of the alternatives. There is no evidence for the other.
Hence one explanation is by definition superior to the other.
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Originally Posted by wjtwet
The question then goes to what caused the big bang. Do you believe it was caused by elements which always existed accidental coming to gether and blowing up somehow causing planets suns and lava pools, or do you believe that there was a creator which caused it.
How is it that you seem to have missed the whole discussion to this point, a large part of which you were personally involved?
There is evidence for one of those scenarios, and not the other.
My question is why do the people who deny creation get so huffy and riled up that others believe?
Because the Creationists are defrauding people. Because they are taking advantage of the ignorance and psychologic dependency of other people. Because they continue to make repeated attempts to erode the establishment clause using this issue.
Because they are liars.
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Why can't they believe what they want and let others believe as they will. Why do they have to, as exemplifed on so many threads on CD, have to attack and demean believers?
So much anger.
You tell me, they are the ones trying to push their agenda in the public schools. We aren't going to their churches.
Because the Creationists are defrauding people. Because they are taking advantage of the ignorance and psychologic dependency of other people. Because they continue to make repeated attempts to erode the establishment clause using this issue.
Because they are liars.
You tell me, they are the ones trying to push their agenda in the public schools. We aren't going to their churches.
So ask them.
I guess you have proved my point.
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