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Old 02-22-2011, 08:24 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,196,176 times
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Ah Hillary Clinton, for the first time in her life is nearly silent. She is nearly silent on the growing violence against pro-democracy proponents by US supported dictators and strong men. However this muted acquiescence of America's favorite strong men abroad like Mubarak, was over shadowed by the most pathetic and ironic event of all.

During a speech at George Washington University, in which Clinton was admonishing governments for things like cutting off the internet, cutting communications and allowing peaceful protests, a man named Ray McGovern, a former CIA officer and military veteran stood up with the audience to welcome Clinton, but then remained standing after everyone sat down.

Ray McGovern was dragged out and beaten, and for what exactly? For standing silently at a speech being given on freedom of speech and the condemnation of brutal treatment in the Middle East. While being dragged out of the room, Ray McGovern said only one thing, "So this is America".

Immediately the press and media issued news about a protester heckling Mrs Clinton, but thanks to the intenet and cell phone cameras, it was soon clear that Mr. McGovern did no such thing and that his only crime was standing there in the room.

To add a dash of salt to the wound, Mr. McGovern added in a later interview that he has done this before and once even with Donald Rumsfeld. During the Rumsfeld speech when security took the mic away, Mr. McGovern once again had stated, "So this is America", at which point Donald Rumsfeld waved to the security people to allow him to continue speaking.

Whether you agree or disagree with Ray McGovern, this is America today and the draconian police state that gained momentum under the Bush administration is alive and well, and thriving under Obama.


This is America
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:36 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,889,770 times
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I checked with the newspaper at George Washington, which also had embedded a video.

Protester arrested during Clinton speech - News

While some are saying the Clinton owes McGovern an apology, I think the apology is owed to the audience, by both. The topic was freedom of speech, and McGovern was certainly trying to exercise his freedom of speech, and yet he wasn't projecting any real message. By standing and turning his back toward the speaker, he was simply expressing contempt. Contempt for her, but also for the other people in the audience whose view he was obstructing, and whom he was distracting. Clinton owes an apology to the audience, because rather than address McGovern, at a speech about free speech, she ignored a protester and his forcible ejection from the room. She had an opportunity to engage the audience in free speech, and she didn't take that opportunity. The entire affair is shameful.

While I understand McGovern wants the wars to end, and his strategy to make his point is unique, that strategy has advantages and disadvantages. I applaud him for capitalizing on these events, though I'm not sure that his championing of Rumsfeld and demonizing of Clinton is actually forwarding the agenda he claims to serve.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:13 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,196,176 times
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Well I don't believe he is championing Rumsfeld but merely using him as an example of the acquiescence of 'the left' to this issue which was once a bulwark of the left by pointing out that this secretary of state isn't that much unlike a previous one.

While Mr. McGovern and Mrs Clinton may owe the audience an apology, I feel the bulk of America, especially those governing, owes every soldier abroad, as well as the families of the dead an apology for the quiet acceptance and tolerance of the needless bloodshed predicated upon a mountain of malarky.

When nearly every single poll indicates that a large and solid majority favor our exit from our wars and occupations, I cannot help but be reminded that in order for evil to prevail, all it takes is for good men to do nothing.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:18 AM
 
660 posts, read 1,654,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post

Ray McGovern was dragged out and beaten,

Do you have a link quoting that he was "beaten"?
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:22 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,196,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTurner View Post
Do you have a link quoting that he was "beaten"?
No, I have several, including pictures.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:24 AM
 
660 posts, read 1,654,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
No, I have several, including pictures.

Then it might have been nice if you'd have included at least ONE.

Someone else provided a link with a video, but I don't see him being "beaten" in that video.

Kindly provide some links.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:31 AM
 
660 posts, read 1,654,177 times
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I'm no supporter of Hillary Clinton at all, but the guy was being disruptive by his standing there.

There is such a thing as decorum.

He could have waited until she opened up the meeting for a possible Q&A session or something.

He was asked to leave politely and refused.

Free speech has it's limits. Common courtesy is a virtue.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:40 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,196,176 times
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For Christ sakes... Lets see, how does one do this ... (typing) Ray McGovern beaten 'news' in google....
.048 seconds later...

Ex-CIA Analyst Ray McGovern Beaten, Arrested for Silent Protest at Clinton Speech
Ex-CIA Analyst Ray McGovern Beaten, Arrested for Silent Protest at Clinton Speech

Includes pictures.

Rights abuse at Clinton's Rights talk: Police targeted violence of Christian Vet - National Human Rights | Examiner.com
Rights abuse at Clinton's Rights talk: Police targeted violence of Christian Vet

Fmr. FBI Analyst Ray McGovern: I was Beaten at Hillary Clinton Speech
Fmr. FBI Analyst Ray McGovern: I was Beaten at Hillary Clinton Speech

More pictures
http://wagingnonviolence.org/wp-cont...ymcgovern2.jpg

Ray McGovern Bloodied at Clinton Talk
Ray McGovern Bloodied at Clinton Talk

'No heckler at Clinton speech'
PressTV - 'No heckler at Clinton speech'

She is saying this; three paragraphs; and she stood silently watching me in the fourth row being pounced upon by these goons and unceremoniously ejected from the auditorium. She finishes with this sentence: “Iran is awful, because it is a government that routinely violates the rights of its people.”

And here I am being thrown out, bleeding profusely from these wounds that you can see there, and thrown in prison without any medical attention; kept there for three and a half hours, and it was myself that had to take a taxi cab to the hospital to get my wounds attended to; my wrists X-rayed to see what damage had been done.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:46 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,196,176 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTurner View Post
I'm no supporter of Hillary Clinton at all, but the guy was being disruptive by his standing there.

There is such a thing as decorum.

He could have waited until she opened up the meeting for a possible Q&A session or something.

He was asked to leave politely and refused.

Free speech has it's limits. Common courtesy is a virtue.
And beating an American veteran bloody because he stood up silently during a speech about freedom of speech and brutality in the Middle East...


Absolutely disgusting...

Thousands of US soldiers get blown to pieces and people are worried about being offended by a man standing in silent protest in the United States of America, what have we reduced ourselves to.

My god, we are as bad as the former Soviet Union...
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:46 AM
 
660 posts, read 1,654,177 times
Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
For Christ sakes... Lets see, how does one do this ... (typing) Ray McGovern beaten 'news' in google....
.048 seconds later...

Ummmm....it is customary to provide a link WITH your story.

If it was SO easy, then it certainly couldn't have been too much to ask for a link in the 1st place.
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