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But its not progressive. Bush II upped the debt at the expense of tax cuts for the wealthy. Not really progressive.
If we're going to be making up terms, here's one that seems to be made apparent by most "true conservatives" First lets think about their policies:
1. Decrease taxes on the rich, increase taxes on the poor.
2. Cut out the estate tax, so all wealth can be inherited.
3. Cut any program that makes it possible for people to advance in this country without being beholden to someone with a lot of money.
4. Removing laws that make it possible for workers to get paid liveable wages, wages that allow them to save and not just live paycheck to paycheck.
Sounds a bit like an era of kings and queens, just no titles. A small group of people hold all the money, pass it on to the next generation and little or no advancement between the class of commoners and the class of royals.
I'm going to call "conservatives" neo monarchists now.
Because you are a full blown Progressive, the Conservative movement has you pretty scared, since you have never had to deal with a true Progressive before.
A true Conservative, is what they call a Libertarian these days.
the point i made was that there is an ongoing shift of the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class. take your analysis over a 20 or 30 year period and you'll be amazed at the shift. Look at current numbers, you are using old data.
discussing how big a share the wealthy pay in taxes is not complete without discussing how much they earn, how big a share of the pie they take in.
The low end of the wage ladder is full of people below the poverty level that pay little or no income taxes, but that isn't to say they don't pay taxes. fact is that when you look at ALL taxes, the middle class pay a far greater share of the income toward taxes.
The wealthy who gather much of their income from capital gains, pay as little as 15% of the income toward federal income taxes and their income in capped for FICA/SS taxes.
ok so 15% if someone makes 100 million and they pay 15% they have paid 15 million dollars in taxes. Is that fair? have they used more in society's resources that they should have paid so much more?
We need to get away from INCOME tax, and institute a FAIR TAX system, so that when you SPEND money to buy goods and services, you pay your tax then. That way wealthy people who spend more, pay more, and people who earn less and spend less, pay less.
That would also benefit us by taxing people who earn their living through ILLEGAL activity, since now, when they spend that money to buy cars, houses, etc etc etc, they pay their fair share of taxes.
Voting for either side sucks but I guess at least the Pubs don't show the sneering contempt for working class whites (especially straight white men) that the libs do nor do they seem to play the race card and view public policy as a zero sum game. It seems like the dems and their mouthpieces like Olberman, Maddow, Sharpton are just as happy drag whites down as they are to do help fix the true reasons minorities still lag behind in many areas.
Most left wing politicos wouldn't pee on me if I was on fire.
you are kidding, right? If we had a true flat tax that $100 million earner (think of that for a moment, not in life earnings, but yearly earnings) they would pay at least that amount. I have heard 17% to 20%.
I someone making $60k a year can afford 15% or more in federal taxes, I truly believe someone making $100 MILLION in one year can pay their fair share.
Yes, more than likely, the $100 million dollar earning created much of his income using our roads and bridges, used our airports and harbors and probably had the US military protect his interests overseas. Each of us has a duty to pay our fair share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt
ok so 15% if someone makes 100 million and they pay 15% they have paid 15 million dollars in taxes. Is that fair? have they used more in society's resources that they should have paid so much more?
We need to get away from INCOME tax, and institute a FAIR TAX system, so that when you SPEND money to buy goods and services, you pay your tax then. That way wealthy people who spend more, pay more, and people who earn less and spend less, pay less.
That would also benefit us by taxing people who earn their living through ILLEGAL activity, since now, when they spend that money to buy cars, houses, etc etc etc, they pay their fair share of taxes.
you are kidding, right? If we had a true flat tax that $100 million earner (think of that for a moment, not in life earnings, but yearly earnings) they would pay at least that amount. I have heard 17% to 20%.
I someone making $60k a year can afford 15% or more in federal taxes, I truly believe someone making $100 MILLION in one year can pay their fair share.
Yes, more than likely, the $100 million dollar earning created much of his income using our roads and bridges, used our airports and harbors and probably had the US military protect his interests overseas. Each of us has a duty to pay our fair share.
Good point. 15% is 15%, whether you make 60k or 100 million. Sure, the number is higher for someone that makes 100 million. But that's because they make more money so they can afford to pay a higher dollar amount (although the same percentage)
Because they are easily brainwashed. Poverty breeds ignorance. There is a very deep seated militarism that exists in America that can be traced back way before WWII.
The white American middle and working class is akin to a **** bending over and grabbing her ankles about to get it by a clydesdale. That is what America has turned into. We are nothing but serfs and everyone is too braindead and too gutless to realize it let alone do anything about it. Voting has lost any and all power it ever had. The right to vote died almost the minute it came to fruition. Moneyed interests and their corporate keepers are who our government answers too. If you follow the money one would be shocked just how much influence certain families have and have had throughout the history of the United States......eg. the Rockefellers. The American public should round up every blood relative of the original John Rockefeller and string them up in gallows. And that is only one of about 60 families that control and manipulate the American government, economy, and its people.
Nailed it, and nailed it early on, the first reply into the thread.
you are kidding, right? If we had a true flat tax that $100 million earner (think of that for a moment, not in life earnings, but yearly earnings) they would pay at least that amount. I have heard 17% to 20%.
I someone making $60k a year can afford 15% or more in federal taxes, I truly believe someone making $100 MILLION in one year can pay their fair share.
Yes, more than likely, the $100 million dollar earning created much of his income using our roads and bridges, used our airports and harbors and probably had the US military protect his interests overseas. Each of us has a duty to pay our fair share.
1. the amount would be close to 23 %
2. It would not change to price of anything, because federal taxes paid on the behalf of workers (Employers pay ½),are already rolled into the cost of everything.
3. Bottom line, you would keep your entire check minus state taxes, the cost of everything would remain the same, because taxes paid on behalf of all employees associated with the manufacture/delivery of goods and services would no longer have to be rolled into the cost of anything, and people would have more money to spend.
This also means that while the Millionaire MAY pay more, it actually turns out to be less due to the fact that his money is not "AFTER" taxes, and the cost of goods and services would not change in the over all.
Poor Whites vote Republican because the Republicans make them feel strong and safe from the gun grabbers and the undesirables (blacks, Asians, Mexicans etc) while supporting their fundamentalist Christianity. Republican politicians convince the poor that they are just like us.
This is the greatest snow job ever. The Republican plutocrats are just good actors backed by very good advertizers.
All of you bashing people who have different political perspectives as stupid, uneducated, easily brainwashed, are you all crazy?????
People vote for the political party they identify with. There are many reasons. People vote for the party they've traditionally supported. People vote for certain parties because of specific issues, like abortion, or like guns, or like education. People vote for certain parties because the social groups they interact with tend to vote for certain parties, and since people identify with other members of their social groups, voting is an activity that unifies those social groups, be it family, church, friends, or the other dog owners at the dog park on Saturday mornings. People vote for certain candidates because something about that candidate pings with them.
The person who voted for the party that you didn't support is not by virtue of that vote, stupid, or ignorant, or uninformed, or uneducated. The person who voted for the party that you didn't support has different priorities and a different perspective from you. It might be a good idea to actually have a respectful conversation with that person. It might even be a mark of intelligence to try to exchange ideas rather than to enter the fray and start calling the other person names.
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