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Eh, wrong. Anytime you want to use the word "homophobic" in regard to someone's conservative viewpoint on homosexuality, you are demeaning both the person and the word itself. People really need to study up on what words mean and stop throwing around ridiculous buzz words. Homophobia literally means fear of the same. The gay community has turned it into the equivalent of hatred of gays, and it's incredibly ignorant. I got ragged on before for pointing out that homophobia is one of the most misused accusations here on C-D...kind of ridiculous, considering that you are all using it wrong and turning it into something it's not. Nobody is afraid of homosexuality.
Not all words literally mean what their greek/latin based break down is. It's stupid just to assume that because homo means same and phobia means fear of, that the word only means "fear of the same". Does that mean you think understand means "under a stand"?
Anyway, I think if I'm the one being accused of being homophobic, I should know how to explain my stance, and yes, it does mean this: homophobia is just a matter of disagreeing and not of hatred.
It's far more than just disagreeing. When you try to pass laws to oppress gays, you fall into hatred.
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And yes, I believe and always will until science proves otherwise that gays do choose their sexuality.
Aside from the fact that science has already indicated sexuality is not a choice, is the 100s of millions of gays saying they didn't choose to be gay, or the billions of straights claiming they didn't choose to be straight not good enough for you? Anyone who thinks the majority of gays would choose to be one of the most hated minorities in human history, and be forced to hide themselves and live in certain areas to feel more safe isn't very intelligent.
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Your argument is just a big sweeping generalization that gays are some poor dejected segment of society b/c they have to go through SO MUCH in their daily life b/c they are gay. Give me a break. People go through crap in their life for a variety of reasons, gays are not special in that respect. People are going to hate for no reason whatsoever. Some people hate me b/c I'm outspoken and have a tendency to call people on their BS (which is really something that should be respected, not looked down upon...thus, it's not a valid reason to hate someone [as if hate can be validated to begin with]), so should I start calling those people "Andreaphobic"? I think not.
You being hated for your inane beliefs and poor logical reasoning is not equivalent to gays being hated by just trying to live. Crappy analogy.
Do other people in the world have it hard? Yes. Does any other group as a whole in 1st world countries, let alone 3rd world, suffer at the hands of society as much as gays? Nope.
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ETA: I don't really understand where you're going with the entire thread, just seems more like a rant coupled with random information, but you should be glad you have it as good as you do in the US. I mean, you could be living in Uganda!
Yeah, funny thing about Uganda and the US - prominent US Christians backed the kill the gays bill. Uganda is also majority "Christian" who basically share the same views as you do.
"Homophobia" is a word that has been made up for no other purpose than to smear anyone who does not embrace homosexuality as being the way Nature intended. While sensible people recognize that homosexuality occurs, many simply do not want to have their noses rubbed in it, figuratively speaking. Some die hard anti-homosexuality people (and cultures) take it to extreme levels but there are many who are labeled "homophobes" who are fully accepting of homosexuality and have no problem with it.
The whole "denial of rights to homosexuals" is not a "rights" issue, at all. It is based on wanting to share in the financial benefits that accrue to heterosexual couples.
Eh, wrong. Anytime you want to use the word "homophobic" in regard to someone's conservative viewpoint on homosexuality, you are demeaning both the person and the word itself.
Actually I'm trying to say quite the opposite. I'm saying disagreeing with same-sex marriage or homosexuality in general isn't homophobia, or at the very least, is a very mild slither of it. Real homophobia is people who imprison, torture, rape, and kill people for engaging in homosexuality.
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People really need to study up on what words mean and stop throwing around ridiculous buzz words. Homophobia literally means fear of the same.
What do you think is the reasoning behind violence and murder of anyone? Let's take this away from the gay argument. If people were rounding up Christians and killing them by the boatload, what do you think their motives would be? Wouldn't it be fair to say that there is at least some element of fear and hatred in the picture?
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The gay community has turned it into the equivalent of hatred of gays, and it's incredibly ignorant. I got ragged on before for pointing out that homophobia is one of the most misused accusations here on C-D...kind of ridiculous, considering that you are all using it wrong and turning it into something it's not. Nobody is afraid of homosexuality.
I agree it is largely misused. I'm talking about cases where homophobia and gay rights really are the only appropriate terms.
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Anyway, I think if I'm the one being accused of being homophobic, I should know how to explain my stance, and yes, it does mean this: homophobia is just a matter of disagreeing and not of hatred.
I never accused you of being homophobic. My whole point to this thread is that people who share your opinion shouldn't be considered homophobic. There are people in this world who disagree so passionately with homosexuality that it drives them to rape, imprison, and murder gays. I would say it is pretty fair to say those people hate gays.
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And yes, I believe and always will until science proves otherwise that gays do choose their sexuality.
You really believe that someone who choose to be gay even after being raided in her own home and raped by several men and beaten beyond recognition? The woman that happened to is still gay. Even that wasn't enough to get her to "switch teams." Doesn't that sort of point to the idea that maybe, just maybe, it's an inherent trait? Why would anyone ever choose to be gay in Uganda or Iran? Choosing to be gay in San Francisco is one thing, but in Uganda or Iran?
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Your argument is just a big sweeping generalization that gays are some poor dejected segment of society b/c they have to go through SO MUCH in their daily life b/c they are gay. Give me a break. People go through crap in their life for a variety of reasons, gays are not special in that respect.
I never meant to imply that gays are the only ones that are persecuted. They are just one of many groups that are.
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People are going to hate for no reason whatsoever. Some people hate me b/c I'm outspoken and have a tendency to call people on their BS (which is really something that should be respected, not looked down upon...thus, it's not a valid reason to hate someone [as if hate can be validated to begin with]), so should I start calling those people "Andreaphobic"? I think not.
This thread isn't about people who share your opinion. Nowhere am I accusing you or anyone who shares your opinion of being homophobic. This thread is about the violence and murder that is fueled by anti-gay feelings. I am just asking that people reconsider what they are saying when they think that homophobia is just about disagreeing and marriage. I am just asking that people reconsider what they're saying when they claim the only right gays lack is the right to marriage.
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ETA: I don't really understand where you're going with the entire thread, just seems more like a rant coupled with random information, but you should be glad you have it as good as you do in the US. I mean, you could be living in Uganda!
I hope that my replies managed to clear some things up.
I am so glad I am not living in Uganda. I really do appreciate living in the U.S. And I think a lot of gays should think about how lucky we have it here in the U.S. compared to so many people around the world.
People need to focus more attention on places like Uganda and Iran where homosexuality leads to the death penalty. That's my whole point. Why are we always talking about how gays can't get married like that's the end of the world? There are tons of gays out there who can't even walk onto the street without getting harassed by the morality police and forced into an unwanted sex change. There are gays that are raped repeatedly because the society thinks that will "fix" them. There are gays who are publicly hanged--just for being gay!
And with all that said, please consider these two questions.
1) Does homophobia exist?
2) Does the gay rights movements have to do with fundamental rights?
The whole "denial of rights to homosexuals" is not a "rights" issue, at all. It is based on wanting to share in the financial benefits that accrue to heterosexual couples.
What about the gays who just want to be able to walk outside their house, have sex with their partner in the privacy of their own home? What about the gays who just don't want to be raped or killed? Where is the desire for financial benefit in that? Don't you think that's a matter of fundamental human rights?
Homophobia is your side's word defined as your side has seen fit to define it and for your side's own purposes. What exists, according to your definition of your new word, is a flaw in the character of others which prevents them from embracing your "correct" values. Your side has taken to the public schools to help the rest of us raise our children without transmitting this character flaw of intolerance of all things gay. Your side has gone to the state's supreme courts to overturn the expressed will of the voters. In other nations such as Canada and Switzerland, the lack of our First Amendment protections has allowed publicly expressing disapproval of homosexuality to be made a jailable offense.
That is total ignorant BS... Expressing disapproval of homosexuality is NOT a crime in Canada...Inciting people to violence against anyone homosexual or not is.
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As though we who oppose same-sex marriage were incapable of clear and coherent thought.
I don't think you are, because you know little about the subject.
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As though you who wish to transform societies sexual norms and definition of marriage and family couldn't simply be wrong.
Homosexuality IS normal for some, and we are not wrong. Nobody is going to change YOUR definition of marriage and family...It will have no effect whatsoever on you or your family
I am posting this thread because I hear a lot of people saying things like "homophobia doesn't mean hating gays, it just means disagreeing" or "you can't compare the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement because getting married isn't a fundamental right", and so I want to give people a more accurate picture of what the gay rights movement is about. The right to marry and disagreeing peacefully is just a slither of the gay rights movement.
There are about 80 countries that have laws criminalizing homosexual behavior. 5 of those countries issue the death penalty.
Jamaica is trying to outlaw homosexuality. It has already expressly not criminalized same-sex rape since that would imply that same-sex consensual sex is okay.
Gays in Iran are encouraged and sometimes forced to get sex changes so they can fit in society. This is very different from transsexuals getting a sex change because transsexuals want a sex change. These people are gay but feel their only way out of being harassed by the government and the morality police is by getting a sex change.
Starting in the 1980's in Iran, gays were charged with the crime of sodomy and brought to prison to be raped repeatedly by prison guards, often with objects and heavily punctuated with lashes and other types of beatings. This is still going on today.
Right now, Uganda is trying to make homosexuality punishable by death. It's also trying to make not reporting homosexual behavior illegal.
A minority of these people have the courage to try to flee their country. Some end up retraumatized. One story of a woman who was raped by several men in Uganda tried to flee to Turkey and then the UK but was denied refugee status and asked questions by the UK officials for proof of her lesbianism, and sent back to Uganda after being told she could just live her sexual life privately. The problem is she was--she was raided by the police for sleeping with her same-sex partner in her own bedroom. Gays cannot just live their lives privately because the time always comes that family asks why they're not married yet, or someone finds them having sexual relations--even in the privacy of their own home.
When people talk about the gay rights movement, it's not just about being able to get married or adopt. It's about not being disowned by your family and ostracized by your community. It's about being able to live without risking your life.
I urge CD'ers and people in general to reconsider when they ask if homophobia really exists, and when they try to clarify that homophobia is just a matter of disagreeing and not of hatred. I also urge CD'ers to reconsider if they really believe gays choose their sexuality given the conditions and the extremes some of these people are subjected to just for being gay.
I'm not exactly certain how to tell you this but.............we aren't africa, jamaca, or iran. Besides, I seem to remember that the basis for multiculturalism means we cannot judge others cultures because all cultures are equally valid. Having said that we don't treat homosexuals the way they are treated in many cultures and I'm just fine with that.
I'm not exactly certain how to tell you this but.............we aren't africa, jamaca, or iran. Besides, I seem to remember that the basis for multiculturalism means we cannot judge others cultures because all cultures are equally valid. Having said that we don't treat homosexuals the way they are treated in many cultures and I'm just fine with that.
I know we aren't, and I'm not trying to say that we are. My very point is that the U.S. gay rights movement is not an accurate basis for disregarding homophobia and downplaying it to nothing more than a "buzzword". I'm saying that homophobia does exist, and what happens in countries like these are prime examples.
I am not judging the entire cultures. I am just pointing out that violence against gays is rampant on the global level. I am urging people to reconsider their beliefs about what homophobia and gay rights mean.
What about the gays who just want to be able to walk outside their house, have sex with their partner in the privacy of their own home? What about the gays who just don't want to be raped or killed? Where is the desire for financial benefit in that? Don't you think that's a matter of fundamental human rights?
Gays are walking around now outside their homes in perfect safety. (Whites get beat up in black and Hispanic neighborhoods, so no one is immune from assault all the time.) NO ONE wants to be raped or killed. That isn't a homosexual issue at all. Gays also are gainfully employed without discrimination, in most areas of employment. And gays are having sex in private, as we speak. No one cares about that and if they do, tough. What people do in privacy is their own business, as long as they are consenting adults.
I can understand people not wanting to be ridiculed because of something they have no control over, such as their sexual orientation, but I would remind you that it is human nature to "pick on" those who are somehow "different", be they fat, clumsy, uncoordinated, shy, socially inept, blind or wear thick glasses, etc. Note all the ridicule of "rednecks" on CD. Not to mention, "conservatives", "liberals", "birthers", "truthers", etc.
The financial benefits gays are seeking will come with governmental recognition of gay marriage and gay marriage, per se, is another issue. That issue will probably be settled by the Supreme Court within the next few years.
I know we aren't, and I'm not trying to say that we are. My very point is that the U.S. gay rights movement is not an accurate basis for disregarding homophobia and downplaying it to nothing more than a "buzzword". I'm saying that homophobia does exist, and what happens in countries like these are prime examples.
I am not judging the entire cultures. I am just pointing out that violence against gays is rampant on the global level. I am urging people to reconsider their beliefs about what homophobia and gay rights mean.
Violence against everybody is rampant. In rwanda one tribe managed to kill nearly a million members of another tribe primarily armed with sticks and machetes no less. You are using bias in other cultures to justify the political motivations of the democratic party to capitalize on their support by the gay community in the us. Understanding this doesn't make me homophobic.
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