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I am posting this thread because I hear a lot of people saying things like "homophobia doesn't mean hating gays, it just means disagreeing" or "you can't compare the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement because getting married isn't a fundamental right", and so I want to give people a more accurate picture of what the gay rights movement is about. The right to marry and disagreeing peacefully is just a slither of the gay rights movement.
There are about 80 countries that have laws criminalizing homosexual behavior. 5 of those countries issue the death penalty.
Jamaica is trying to outlaw homosexuality. It has already expressly not criminalized same-sex rape since that would imply that same-sex consensual sex is okay.
Gays in Iran are encouraged and sometimes forced to get sex changes so they can fit in society. This is very different from transsexuals getting a sex change because transsexuals want a sex change. These people are gay but feel their only way out of being harassed by the government and the morality police is by getting a sex change.
Starting in the 1980's in Iran, gays were charged with the crime of sodomy and brought to prison to be raped repeatedly by prison guards, often with objects and heavily punctuated with lashes and other types of beatings. This is still going on today.
Right now, Uganda is trying to make homosexuality punishable by death. It's also trying to make not reporting homosexual behavior illegal.
A minority of these people have the courage to try to flee their country. Some end up retraumatized. One story of a woman who was raped by several men in Uganda tried to flee to Turkey and then the UK but was denied refugee status and asked questions by the UK officials for proof of her lesbianism, and sent back to Uganda after being told she could just live her sexual life privately. The problem is she was--she was raided by the police for sleeping with her same-sex partner in her own bedroom. Gays cannot just live their lives privately because the time always comes that family asks why they're not married yet, or someone finds them having sexual relations--even in the privacy of their own home.
When people talk about the gay rights movement, it's not just about being able to get married or adopt. It's about not being disowned by your family and ostracized by your community. It's about being able to live without risking your life.
I urge CD'ers and people in general to reconsider when they ask if homophobia really exists, and when they try to clarify that homophobia is just a matter of disagreeing and not of hatred. I also urge CD'ers to reconsider if they really believe gays choose their sexuality given the conditions and the extremes some of these people are subjected to just for being gay.
Last edited by nimchimpsky; 04-07-2011 at 11:46 PM..
Some of the people you speak of will never change their minds, but it's still good to have the discussion, because it does raise awareness.
The most civilized countries in the world do not criminalize homosexuality or treat sexual minorities with contempt. I'm glad the U.S. is continuing to become a more civilized place with each year that passes.
I am posting this thread because I hear a lot of people saying things like "homophobia doesn't mean hating gays, it just means disagreeing" or "you can't compare the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement because getting married isn't a fundamental right", and so I want to give people a more accurate picture of what the gay rights movement is about. The right to marry and disagreeing peacefully is just a slither of the gay rights movement.
There are about 80 countries that have laws criminalizing homosexual behavior. 5 of those countries issue the death penalty.
Gays in Iran are encouraged and sometimes forced to get sex changes so they can fit in society. This is very different from transsexuals getting a sex change because transsexuals want a sex change. These people are gay but feel their only way out of being harassed by the government and the morality police is by getting a sex change.
Starting in the 1980's in Iran, gays were charged with the crime of sodomy and brought to prison to be raped repeatedly by prison guards, often with objects and heavily punctuated with lashes and other types of beatings. This is still going on today.
In Uganda, gays have been raided in the privacy of their own home for having same-sex relations in their own bed. Right now, Uganda is trying to make homosexuality punishable by death.
A minority of these people have the courage to try to flee their country. Some end up retraumatized. One story of a woman who was raped by several men in Uganda tried to flee to Turkey and then the UK but was denied refugee status and asked questions by the UK officials for proof of her lesbianism, and sent back to Uganda after being told she could just live her sexual life privately. The problem is she was--she was raided by the police for sleeping with her same-sex partner in her own bedroom. Gays cannot just live their lives privately because the time always comes that family asks why they're not married yet, or someone finds them having sexual relations--even in the privacy of their own home.
When people talk about the gay rights movement, it's not just about being able to get married or adopt. It's about not being disowned by your family and ostracized by your community. It's about being able to live without risking your life.
I urge CD'ers and people in general to reconsider when they ask if homophobia really exists, and when they try to clarify that homophobia is just a matter of disagreeing and not of hatred. I also urge CD'ers to reconsider if they really believe gays choose their sexuality given the conditions and the extremes some of these people are subjected to just for being gay.
Homophobia is your side's word defined as your side has seen fit to define it and for your side's own purposes. What exists, according to your definition of your new word, is a flaw in the character of others which prevents them from embracing your "correct" values. Your side has taken to the public schools to help the rest of us raise our children without transmitting this character flaw of intolerance of all things gay. Your side has gone to the state's supreme courts to overturn the expressed will of the voters. In other nations such as Canada and Switzerland, the lack of our First Amendment protections has allowed publicly expressing disapproval of homosexuality to be made a jailable offense.
Do tell us all about intolerance nimchimpsky.
"I am posting this thread because I hear a lot of people saying things like "homophobia doesn't mean hating gays, it just means disagreeing" or "you can't compare the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement because getting married isn't a fundamental right", and so I want to give people a more accurate picture of what the gay rights movement is about."
As though we who oppose same-sex marriage were incapable of clear and coherent thought.
As though you who wish to transform societies sexual norms and definition of marriage and family couldn't simply be wrong.
I am posting this thread because I hear a lot of people saying things like "homophobia doesn't mean hating gays, it just means disagreeing" or "you can't compare the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement because getting married isn't a fundamental right", and so I want to give people a more accurate picture of what the gay rights movement is about. The right to marry and disagreeing peacefully is just a slither of the gay rights movement.
There are about 80 countries that have laws criminalizing homosexual behavior. 5 of those countries issue the death penalty.
Jamaica is trying to outlaw homosexuality. It has already expressly not criminalized same-sex rape since that would imply that same-sex consensual sex is okay.
Gays in Iran are encouraged and sometimes forced to get sex changes so they can fit in society. This is very different from transsexuals getting a sex change because transsexuals want a sex change. These people are gay but feel their only way out of being harassed by the government and the morality police is by getting a sex change.
Starting in the 1980's in Iran, gays were charged with the crime of sodomy and brought to prison to be raped repeatedly by prison guards, often with objects and heavily punctuated with lashes and other types of beatings. This is still going on today.
Right now, Uganda is trying to make homosexuality punishable by death. It's also trying to make not reporting homosexual behavior illegal.
A minority of these people have the courage to try to flee their country. Some end up retraumatized. One story of a woman who was raped by several men in Uganda tried to flee to Turkey and then the UK but was denied refugee status and asked questions by the UK officials for proof of her lesbianism, and sent back to Uganda after being told she could just live her sexual life privately. The problem is she was--she was raided by the police for sleeping with her same-sex partner in her own bedroom. Gays cannot just live their lives privately because the time always comes that family asks why they're not married yet, or someone finds them having sexual relations--even in the privacy of their own home.
When people talk about the gay rights movement, it's not just about being able to get married or adopt. It's about not being disowned by your family and ostracized by your community. It's about being able to live without risking your life.
I urge CD'ers and people in general to reconsider when they ask if homophobia really exists, and when they try to clarify that homophobia is just a matter of disagreeing and not of hatred. I also urge CD'ers to reconsider if they really believe gays choose their sexuality given the conditions and the extremes some of these people are subjected to just for being gay.
Eh, wrong. Anytime you want to use the word "homophobic" in regard to someone's conservative viewpoint on homosexuality, you are demeaning both the person and the word itself. People really need to study up on what words mean and stop throwing around ridiculous buzz words. Homophobia literally means fear of the same. The gay community has turned it into the equivalent of hatred of gays, and it's incredibly ignorant. I got ragged on before for pointing out that homophobia is one of the most misused accusations here on C-D...kind of ridiculous, considering that you are all using it wrong and turning it into something it's not. Nobody is afraid of homosexuality.
Anyway, I think if I'm the one being accused of being homophobic, I should know how to explain my stance, and yes, it does mean this: homophobia is just a matter of disagreeing and not of hatred.
And yes, I believe and always will until science proves otherwise that gays do choose their sexuality.
Your argument is just a big sweeping generalization that gays are some poor dejected segment of society b/c they have to go through SO MUCH in their daily life b/c they are gay. Give me a break. People go through crap in their life for a variety of reasons, gays are not special in that respect. People are going to hate for no reason whatsoever. Some people hate me b/c I'm outspoken and have a tendency to call people on their BS (which is really something that should be respected, not looked down upon...thus, it's not a valid reason to hate someone [as if hate can be validated to begin with]), so should I start calling those people "Andreaphobic"? I think not.
ETA: I don't really understand where you're going with the entire thread, just seems more like a rant coupled with random information, but you should be glad you have it as good as you do in the US. I mean, you could be living in Uganda!
And yes, I believe and always will until science proves otherwise that gays do choose their sexuality.
Some people hate me b/c I'm outspoken and have a tendency to call people on their BS (which is really something that should be respected, not looked down upon...thus, it's not a valid reason to hate someone [as if hate can be validated to begin with]), so should I start calling those people "Andreaphobic"? I think not.
ETA: I don't really understand where you're going with the entire thread, just seems more like a rant coupled with random information, but you should be glad you have it as good as you do in the US. I mean, you could be living in Uganda!
I'm starting to think I didn't articulate myself well. My point is that the gay rights movement is NOT just about getting people to agree with you or about getting the right to be married. Homophobia isn't just about people who disagree with you or don't think you should be able to get married.
There are gay people in other countries that are raped and killed just for being gay. That is homophobia. That is where the bulk of the gay rights movement needs to focus its attention.
Homophobia isn't just a buzzword to make people who disagree with homosexuality sound evil. It's a word that describes the kinds of crimes gay people face worldwide because of their gayness. I don't understand how getting orally raped, anally raped, and beaten and tortured, and hanged and killed isn't a matter of fear AND hatred BOTH. How is that not rooted in fear and hatred?
My point is that maybe we should realize that a lot of homophobia is just that--fear and hatred and violence that results from that fear and hatred.
It was boring because it lacked original thought and was pointless in any case.
I'm not trying to be original. I'm just confused because all you seemed to talk about was the marriage issue, which is pretty much just a small fraction of what I posted. I am talking about the global gay rights issues. I don't consider being anti-gay-marriage homophobia. I'm anti-gay-marriage and I'm gay. What I'm saying, though, is that there is real homophobia out there. There are countries where police actively search out people in their homes to arrest them, even when they're practicing homosexuality in the privacy of their own homes. These people aren't trying to teach the children in public school or impose their "agenda" on anyone. They're trying to have a private gay relationship within the walls of their bedroom and yet they still manage to get caught and raped, killed, or imprisoned.
How is that pointless? I simply don't understand how pointing out a major area of gay rights violations that gets missed and forgotten by most people in this country is pointless. I think people need to understand all of this that is going on before they can make a fair judgement about what homophobia is and what gay rights are. Because how can you know what either of those are when you're only seeing 1% of the picture? Gay rights isn't just about gay people complaining about how someone called them a f*g. It's not just about gays wanting to get married. It's about all the people who even when they try to be secretive, still get caught and tortured or killed in a gruesome manner. And it's about the attitudes that fuel this behavior. Why do people feel the need to kill or rape gay people? Why do people feel the need to imprison them? Is that really just a matter of "disagreeing"? Perhaps you and other CD posters only disagree, but there are plenty of people out there who take it way further than just disagreement. They jump right into violence and murder.
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