What's Holding African-Americans back is Black on Black racism (Indiana, Obama, brainwash)

[AeroGuyDC]

Am I the only person who sees the irony in this? The OP tries to discuss black-on-black issues and the first people to call him out on this thread are (presumably) black.

The OP hit the jackpot. And as expected, it struck a nerve. For whatever reason, black people are determined not to fix the issues that plague them. They'd rather worry about "racists" chiming in on the thread. How unfortunate.

OP, you're on the right track. Keep up the good work. Maybe one day Black America will catch up with you and your forward-thinking.

[Freedom123]

Originally Posted by HoodsofATL

I've had this realization in my for awhile now, but wasn't really vocal about it because I'm more introverted than most.

But honestly as African-Americans we don't have the unison, near to the golden era of the civil rights movement that we had. Sad but true. Examples:

Dark skin vs light skin: Mainly its women, but men participate in this as well, its as trivial if not more so than division over eye color

Rich vs Poor: Mostly with the youth and young adults, if you don't have money then you're not really accepted (a very complicated division)

Black People vs Ni**as: This one probably did the most harm, it makes blacks say something familiar to this; "Wow, this is why white people look at us like this" or "Black people gotta do better." The reason this is so prominent is because of the media, it really puts the spotlight on the "ignorant and belligerent" or as most older adults put it "coonery and buffoonery" but that's all we seem to acknowledge as far as a whole, concerning race

Old vs Young: Once again I blame the media, but their not all to blame because once again this is one that is continually accepted within the Black community. I believe that the generation gap also plays a role, as well as the 80s - 90s period, including hip hop. The young are, for the most part, are ignored or seen as to dangerous to approach. And the old are looked at as somebody who doesn't understand or somebody who we don't care to understand so in turn are ignored as well.

Hood/country vs Suburban/proper: This fits in pretty well with my generation. As I like to say "If it ain't one thing its ten more" you gotta be either or, you can't straddle the fence and both are not liked by the other in general. This has an superiority-inferiority complex to it. Giving us competition and strife amongst each other to prove which is better. It may not be direct or even noticed, but observation is key with this one

Those are just the few that I'm going to give a shine of light on. There's a myriad of issues involving African-Americans against African-Americans and day by day I see it get worse and worse. Of course I have optimism for this but I would rather say something than let it be something I hoped it would become

I feel this topic is extremely sensitive I know it will push some folks buttons but for others (including other races) it will give an "ah-ha" moment. And for that reason I ask that as human being we put aside our differences to solve this issue. And rather than just talking about it on CD lets expand this topic to the workplace, schools, living rooms, etc. in a discreet way if need be.

Good morning,

All of these are good points. However, the premise behind it is flawed, because it's based on the assumption that Blacks should have unison simply because we share the same skin color. It was absolutely understandable during the Civil Rights movement since there were barriers that held back all Blacks and joining together was the best solution. Now those barriers are removed, at least in the equal opportunity arena, so we need to be people and Americans first, not some "other" group of Americans.

Having differing viewpoints and personality is healthy, and necessary to avoid group-think. Of course I do reject the ones who participate in bad behavior, but I reject it of all races and don't see bad behavior of ghetto blacks as speaking for, representing me, or making me look bad simply because we share the same skin color. That's a slave / Jim Crow mentality, and it's amazing that even intelligent Blacks still subscribe to it, since this exact mentality was created by oppressors in the past.

Replace "black" with "white" in your post and all of this goes out of the window. Whites see themselves as people and individuals, not as a group or community. If they don't like what another white person is doing, they don't see it as a knock against their "race". Blacks need to do the same thing for both negative AND positive situations. Otherwise many will continue to be stuck in the mentality of being "different" from other Americans.

[Freedom123]

Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC

Am I the only person who sees the irony in this? The OP tries to discuss black-on-black issues and the first people to call him out on this thread are (presumably) black.

The OP hit the jackpot. And as expected, it struck a nerve. For whatever reason, black people are determined not to fix the issues that plague them. They'd rather worry about "racists" chiming in on the thread. How unfortunate.

OP, you're on the right track. Keep up the good work. Maybe one day Black America will catch up with you and your forward-thinking.

Good morning,

I agree that Blacks shouldn't fix the issues, because it's NOT a Black problem. It's class and individual negative choices that create these problems. Yes, some of the effects are residual, but those residual affects have nothing to do with current oppression, and much to do with fear and low self-esteem because of what happened to Blacks in the past.

The rest of the issues in the ghetto areas are due to the effects of:
-Positive Blacks leaving the neighborhood for greener, safer pastures and leaving a power vacuum for the negative, vocal Blacks to take advantage of. Negative Blacks can vary from politicians, race "leaders", on down to the local drug dealer.
-Failed welfare policies (broken family)
-De-industrialization of major cities where they live (less good paying entry-level jobs to counter the choice to "hustle")
-Failed drug war policies after the jobs left (lure of easy money in a neighborhood of no jobs).
-Crime over turf wars as a result of the drug war, since legal, clean drugs in your local pharmacy would put drug dealers out of business and make the neighborhood safer.

None of these are good excuses for making bad choices, but some people without strong family structures are going to choose them anyway. The barriers are gone, and hopefully the visual, vocal 25% minority of Blacks with the problems start taking advantage of this, as the other 75% have.

I want to help all poor people, especially children of any race. It's racist of me to only help one race, simply because we share the same skin color. It was wrong when whites helped each other in the past, and it's wrong for a Black person to take same approach now simply because Blacks were historically oppressed by whites. The best choice morally is to take the high ground over your oppressor, not to follow his same approach simply because the tactic was used against you.

In regards to worrying about racists, these people have no power in today's society. I can't seem to fathom why my fellow Black Americans are so worried about people who can no longer beat, lynch, or even SPEAK publicly of anything that is racist without extreme negative consequences in today's society. Even the possibility something being considered racist causes backlash from all races, and causes people to lose jobs and high level positions of power. They give racists an illusion of power over them by living in constant fear of mere words on a screen by a powerless person. Why not let the racists out themselves?

The other posters and I may differ on why they shouldn't fix the issue, but at least we came to the same conclusion. People need to help themselves, instead of waiting for others or government to come and "save them".

[calipoppy]

OP, I appreciate and understand your motivations for this thread. But Black on Black "racism" is not correct. My suggestion to you OP is dig a little deeper than just the light skin/dark skin, rich/poor, Black people/N word, old/young and hood/suburb arguments because Black America is far more complex with many shades of gray.

The issues of today stem from far too many Black people who do not KNOW THEIR HISTORY. They do not know the greatness from which we have sprung. They don't know who they ARE. They listen to (and believe) people who degrade them, they listen to music that degrades them (without having a knowledge base acting as a counterbalance) and they are bombarded with images that degrade them. And then they internalize the lies of the negative. They don't KNOW WHO WE ARE.

We, as Black people, need to have a "family meeting"....not in an open forum with people that have no interest in our well-being and progression. Many (other) people have an invested interest in having a certain group to occupy the position on the bottom rung and until that is fully acknowledged and understood by Black people (especially the young) many will not be able to move forward.

[wolvesfan210]

i have nothing to fix if other blacks cant get it together, and i have no reason to think about it.

such as whites dont have the obligation to fix the low class lifestyle that many whites lead that ends up with drug, prescription use, broken homes, and cycle of poverty, as you see in the appalachias.

this idea that i(somebody who is black) should be concerned with other people just because they have the same skin color as me is stupid.

i worry about my family and friends. thats it.

quit trying to make it a broad thing, that all blacks are involved in, because its not.

[chattypatty]

Originally Posted by Freedom123

Good morning,

I agree that Blacks shouldn't fix the issues, because it's NOT a Black problem. It's class and individual negative choices that create these problems. Yes, some of the effects are residual, but those residual affects have nothing to do with current oppression, and much to do with fear and low self-esteem because of what happened to Blacks in the past.

The rest of the issues in the ghetto areas are due to the effects of:
-Positive Blacks leaving the neighborhood for greener, safer pastures and leaving a power vacuum for the negative, vocal Blacks to take advantage of. Negative Blacks can vary from politicians, race "leaders", on down to the local drug dealer.
-Failed welfare policies (broken family)
-De-industrialization of major cities where they live (less good paying entry-level jobs to counter the choice to "hustle")
-Failed drug war policies after the jobs left (lure of easy money in a neighborhood of no jobs).
-Crime over turf wars as a result of the drug war, since legal, clean drugs in your local pharmacy would put drug dealers out of business and make the neighborhood safer.

None of these are good excuses for making bad choices, but some people without strong family structures are going to choose them anyway. The barriers are gone, and hopefully the visual, vocal 25% minority of Blacks with the problems start taking advantage of this, as the other 75% have.

I want to help all poor people, especially children of any race. It's racist of me to only help one race, simply because we share the same skin color. It was wrong when whites helped each other in the past, and it's wrong for a Black person to take same approach now simply because Blacks were historically oppressed by whites. The best choice morally is to take the high ground over your oppressor, not to follow his same approach simply because the tactic was used against you.

In regards to worrying about racists, these people have no power in today's society. I can't seem to fathom why my fellow Black Americans are so worried about people who can no longer beat, lynch, or even SPEAK publicly of anything that is racist without extreme negative consequences in today's society. Even the possibility something being considered racist causes backlash from all races, and causes people to lose jobs and high level positions of power. They give racists an illusion of power over them by living in constant fear of mere words on a screen by a powerless person. Why not let the racists out themselves?

The other posters and I may differ on why they shouldn't fix the issue, but at least we came to the same conclusion. People need to help themselves, instead of waiting for others or government to come and "save them".

Great post in many ways. It may be that some blacks, such as you, see themselves as individuals first and not responsible for the behavior of others who share their race or culture. However, there are many more black people who DO practice tribal loyalty, often in highly publicized situations (OJ Simpson, Jena 6, etc). There is a reason why onlookers make the assumptions they do about this. I also belong to a minority and I do feel as if I'm also judged when someone from my group commits a crime. I tend to feel some responsibility, though, and wonder if the community shouldn't try harder to prevent these problems from occurring. But maybe that is all futility, as they say.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by HoodsofATL

I've had this realization in my for awhile now, but wasn't really vocal about it because I'm more introverted than most.

But honestly as African-Americans we don't have the unison, near to the golden era of the civil rights movement that we had. Sad but true. Examples:

Dark skin vs light skin: Mainly its women, but men participate in this as well, its as trivial if not more so than division over eye color

Rich vs Poor: Mostly with the youth and young adults, if you don't have money then you're not really accepted (a very complicated division)

Black People vs Ni**as: This one probably did the most harm, it makes blacks say something familiar to this; "Wow, this is why white people look at us like this" or "Black people gotta do better." The reason this is so prominent is because of the media, it really puts the spotlight on the "ignorant and belligerent" or as most older adults put it "coonery and buffoonery" but that's all we seem to acknowledge as far as a whole, concerning race

Old vs Young: Once again I blame the media, but their not all to blame because once again this is one that is continually accepted within the Black community. I believe that the generation gap also plays a role, as well as the 80s - 90s period, including hip hop. The young are, for the most part, are ignored or seen as to dangerous to approach. And the old are looked at as somebody who doesn't understand or somebody who we don't care to understand so in turn are ignored as well.

Hood/country vs Suburban/proper: This fits in pretty well with my generation. As I like to say "If it ain't one thing its ten more" you gotta be either or, you can't straddle the fence and both are not liked by the other in general. This has an superiority-inferiority complex to it. Giving us competition and strife amongst each other to prove which is better. It may not be direct or even noticed, but observation is key with this one

Those are just the few that I'm going to give a shine of light on. There's a myriad of issues involving African-Americans against African-Americans and day by day I see it get worse and worse. Of course I have optimism for this but I would rather say something than let it be something I hoped it would become

I feel this topic is extremely sensitive I know it will push some folks buttons but for others (including other races) it will give an "ah-ha" moment. And for that reason I ask that as human being we put aside our differences to solve this issue. And rather than just talking about it on CD lets expand this topic to the workplace, schools, living rooms, etc. in a discreet way if need be.

Can you give us examples of any other ethnic group where there are no differences between the social and economic classes?

I've never understood why some blacks think black people should be a monolith. What the heck would Robert Johnson's son have in common with the black kid that grew up in the projects, besides race?

[chattypatty]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

Can you give us examples of any other ethnic group where there are no differences between the social and economic classes?

I've never understood why some blacks think black people should be a monolith. What the heck would Robert Johnson's son have in common with the black kid that grew up in the projects, besides race?

I think a lot of us white people wonder the same, and yet, there does seem to be an expectation coming from "the community." For example, we wonder why black conservatives get such a hard time from other blacks. We wonder why blacks who didn't vote for Obama get called nasty names.

[JazzyTallGuy]

Originally Posted by HoodsofATL

I've had this realization in my for awhile now, but wasn't really vocal about it because I'm more introverted than most.

But honestly as African-Americans we don't have the unison, near to the golden era of the civil rights movement that we had. Sad but true. Examples:

Dark skin vs light skin: Mainly its women, but men participate in this as well, its as trivial if not more so than division over eye color

Rich vs Poor: Mostly with the youth and young adults, if you don't have money then you're not really accepted (a very complicated division)

Black People vs Ni**as: This one probably did the most harm, it makes blacks say something familiar to this; "Wow, this is why white people look at us like this" or "Black people gotta do better." The reason this is so prominent is because of the media, it really puts the spotlight on the "ignorant and belligerent" or as most older adults put it "coonery and buffoonery" but that's all we seem to acknowledge as far as a whole, concerning race

Old vs Young: Once again I blame the media, but their not all to blame because once again this is one that is continually accepted within the Black community. I believe that the generation gap also plays a role, as well as the 80s - 90s period, including hip hop. The young are, for the most part, are ignored or seen as to dangerous to approach. And the old are looked at as somebody who doesn't understand or somebody who we don't care to understand so in turn are ignored as well.

Hood/country vs Suburban/proper: This fits in pretty well with my generation. As I like to say "If it ain't one thing its ten more" you gotta be either or, you can't straddle the fence and both are not liked by the other in general. This has an superiority-inferiority complex to it. Giving us competition and strife amongst each other to prove which is better. It may not be direct or even noticed, but observation is key with this one

Those are just the few that I'm going to give a shine of light on. There's a myriad of issues involving African-Americans against African-Americans and day by day I see it get worse and worse. Of course I have optimism for this but I would rather say something than let it be something I hoped it would become

I feel this topic is extremely sensitive I know it will push some folks buttons but for others (including other races) it will give an "ah-ha" moment. And for that reason I ask that as human being we put aside our differences to solve this issue. And rather than just talking about it on CD lets expand this topic to the workplace, schools, living rooms, etc. in a discreet way if need be.

I agree with the all the conflicts you describe.

But they don't NOTHING to do with Black on Black racism.

They are conflicts based on different values beliefs and lifestyles.

With the exception of whole skin tone issue the issues based on economics are present on ALL ETHNIC AND RACIAL GROUPS.

Even other ethnic and racial groups have divisions in them. In some cases Europeans from Germany, English, France and Scandanavian backgrounds look down on Southern Europeans from Italy, Greece, Spain, and Eastern European countries. Those biases are also often played out in American culture. White Americans from the Blue Blood social set are not necessarily going to have the same mindset of somebody living in a trailer park.

East Indians have caste differences and regional differences.

There is nothing inherent in Black American culture that dictates that we all have to think alike, live alike, worship alike, dress alike or have the same poltical views. The fundamental fact is people are going to have differences different values, beliefs and lifestyles. Why should Black Americans be any different in this respect than any other group of people?

[renault]

Didn't Bill Cosby basically say the same thing a while back but was accused by some 'black leaders' as being an old "Uncle Tom" who needed to be put out to pasture?