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Nobody would deny that the Scandinavian countries are very prosperous and succesful democracies. Most people know that.
But when you imply that the US is some kind of third world mess, your arguments, whatever they really are, become rather suspect as they lack legitimacy. Another variation of the "Europe is soooo cool and America is bogus." I know because once upon a time I made them too. I then took the time to live in Europe rather than simply visit. World of difference.
No place is perfect- I believe you did say that. Different countries are different because they have different cultures and a different historical experience. Thus, you cannot take a template of one and just shove it into another. Ask George Bush if Iraq has become Sweden yet. Better yet, ask yourself that.
I get you Moth. But if someone were to both to really read through my posts, they would find that I am American and that while I admire certain aspects of the Scandinavian model, the root of that is really wishing that the US had some sort of model (not neccessarily their model) that allowed for similar allowances and rights for citizens. I have taken the time to live in Europe and I have also lived in several states in the US. So I am not coming at this with rose colored glasses of Good Ole Europa.
Also, I have never asked that the US accept or have the model of any Scandinavian country shoved into it. Part of why I bring this up is because of the insane use of the term "socialism" in recent times in American news and social media. I also can't really stand American's poo poo'ing the idea that any Scandinavian society is thriving, despite any societal difficulties.
I want to see America thrive in similar ways. And some people don't like my comments for that very reason. And, well, perhaps I am wrong for even wishing that Americans had some of the similar benefits to the ones I note that Scandinavians have.
I get you Moth. But if someone were to both to really read through my posts, they would find that I am American and that while I admire certain aspects of the Scandinavian model, the root of that is really wishing that the US had some sort of model (not neccessarily their model) that allowed for similar allowances and rights for citizens. I have taken the time to live in Europe and I have also lived in several states in the US. So I am not coming at this with rose colored glasses of Good Ole Europa.
Also, I have never asked that the US accept or have the model of any Scandinavian country shoved into it. Part of why I bring this up is because of the insane use of the term "socialism" in recent times in American news and social media. I also can't really stand American's poo poo'ing the idea that any Scandinavian society is thriving, despite any societal difficulties.
I want to see America thrive in similar ways. And some people don't like my comments for that very reason. And, well, perhaps I am wrong for even wishing that Americans had some of the similar benefits to the ones I note that Scandinavians have.
I admire Scandinavia as well. I admire most successful nations.
I am a bit perplexed by your stance on your own country. We have rights, most of which are legally encoded and some that are even expanded.
And contratry to modern mythology, we have a social welfare state. Social Security, WIC, Medicare, Medicaid, Government student loans, Veterans Administration, etc- the list goes on.
In some areas its marginally less so than Scandinavia, but only marginally. Having it dispensed by some guy in a nice suit named Sven might make it more appealing.
And if you have lived in Europe, then you know very well that all is not perfect. Lack of class mobility, static bureacracies, racism, and other ills are alive and well in the Olde World.
ahhh yes, the military might of the Scandinavian militaries. I think Lichtenstein is afraid of them...
and just wait and see what their wonderful immigration and welfare benefits are going to get them. But I'm sure the OP would rather live for today and screw the future. That's usually how those kind roll...
ahhh yes, the military might of the Scandinavian militaries. I think Lichtenstein is afraid of them...
and just wait and see what their wonderful immigration and welfare benefits are going to get them. But I'm sure the OP would rather live for today and screw the future. That's usually how those kind roll...
Norway actually spends more per capita on the military than the US. Also, Sweden still has conscription.
When Scandinavia went broke in the early '90s they were whining everywhere that the Scandinavian model failed... Now that they're better (after a lot of reform) they spam the internet and pretty much everything with how great they are.
Being from Europe and having friends who went there to school or work there I believe the Scandinavians can't see their reality. They believe they are the greatest place on earth, yet they have huge problems with the new immigrants because of their xenophobia, they have the oldest cars in Europe (even older than Albania... yeah... that how green they are) and they don't consider a lot of people that are struggling there as poor (because their income is over the so called poverty level but the truth is that even that income is not enough to live a decent life).
Regarding the taxes in Scandinavia I believe that the Americans are misinformed. The taxes in scandinavia are not that high... are pretty much similar with what some people pay even in the US. The corporate taxes are certainly smaller than in the US... check the PwC study on taxes
I wonder what percentage of Scandanavians would be considered part of the mega wealthy and is that higher there or here? How many are considered middle class? How many are destitute?
IMHO a sucessful society as very few mega wealthy, many many middle class and almost no street people. We are not a sucesssful society but a tryanny driven by the fear of falling to the bottom and lost.
The same % that are the ultra wealthy in our country.
Fresh back from a lovely trip in Southern Sweden and Copenhagen, notoriously some of the most heavily taxed regions in Western Europe.
Also, some of the most internationalized regions (referring mainly to southern Sweden here) in Scandinavia. Quality of living in these areas is top of the charts. Citizens are heavily taxed and receive uniform health care, tuition free university (unless you choose to go to some super specialized school), tap water you can drink and a myriad of other benefits that few tax payers in America could ever lay claim to.
So, if you can ever fathom and afford a vacation to Scandinavia, take the time. And pay attention. There are indeed other societies on this planet who manage to make things work for all of their citizens. No, their societies are not perfect, but it's certainly not a bad model to look at to glean some tips.
An interesting note: one thing that the scandanavians support wth their tax dollars which most "progressive" Americans would find troubling is the officially-sanctioned state churches...
An interesting note: one thing that the scandanavians support wth their tax dollars which most "progressive" Americans would find troubling is the officially-sanctioned state churches...
Only if you declare that you are affiliated to a church you pay the church tax... that's why a lot of people don't declare themselves affiliated to any church... and the americans believe that they're not religious out there :lol: Same thing in other EU countries as well...
Fresh back from a lovely trip in Southern Sweden and Copenhagen, notoriously some of the most heavily taxed regions in Western Europe.
Also, some of the most internationalized regions (referring mainly to southern Sweden here) in Scandinavia. Quality of living in these areas is top of the charts. Citizens are heavily taxed and receive uniform health care, tuition free university (unless you choose to go to some super specialized school), tap water you can drink and a myriad of other benefits that few tax payers in America could ever lay claim to.
So, if you can ever fathom and afford a vacation to Scandinavia, take the time. And pay attention. There are indeed other societies on this planet who manage to make things work for all of their citizens. No, their societies are not perfect, but it's certainly not a bad model to look at to glean some tips.
That would be nice for the USA. So to start, we would need to expel almost everyone but Scandinavians from this country. That would solve a huge number of our social problems.
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