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But the primary reason for wanting to see this administration fail? I don't believe it's that simple a thing, that it's just about keeping a black man down.
I believe that POV 1. oversimplifies things and 2. causes such an intense emotional gut reaction that non-Dems won't hear what you have to say from that moment forward, even if what you have to say makes sense...so it feels not only inaccurate to me, it feels heavily destructive to keep saying it.
I mean based on what you're saying, you believe, then, if a white Democrat had been elected president, Pubs would never be going after him and trying to bring him down? They'd be okay with the power changeover? I don't. I believe a white Dem president would have been demonized in some other way and the terms Marxism and Naziism and socialism would still be thrown around like rice at a wedding recessional.
Again...this is just my opinion. I can't speak for everyone and I can't read minds.
I just don't think it's because of race per se (or at least not any more). I don't think it's about keeping a black man down. I think the Pubs would want to see Obama go down even if he were plaid.
Funny, aside from the Lewinsky incident (and only because they had something on him), I do not remember this level of disrespect for a democratic president in office.
Funny, aside from the Lewinsky incident (and only because they had something on him), I do not remember this level of disrespect for a democratic president in office.
I don't either. Things began to get really, really personal somewhere around the bitterness surrounding GWB's (semi-bogus) "winning" of his first presidential election. There was some seriously bad blood. This was overcome with demonization of liberals and of Democrats (these are NOT always the same, contrary to popular belief; not every liberal is a Dem) and with a war.
Then for Bush's reelection, things continued in the same vein. Polarization had worked so well. It worked to have us grow to hate Mooooslims. It worked to have hatred directed at "libs" trying to "ruin" the nation. It was beaten into our brains for eight solid years. Then 2008 became a hatefest of an election. Ugliest election I can recall personally, anyway. It wasn't an election. It was a frenzy. I did vote in the 2008 election. But I was ashamed of both leading sides during the process.
So now it's all about "getting America back". Pubs don't realize how transparent that statement really is. It is about getting the nation "back", to them...at any cost. And that's just frightening; it's become its own reason. And that's not reason enough for me.
It's a way, way, way bigger (and more ominous) picture than simply wanting to see a black man go down.
Funny, aside from the Lewinsky incident (and only because they had something on him), I do not remember this level of disrespect for a democratic president in office.
You must not remember the 90s very well. People spoke of the White House as if it was occupied territory. Clinton was accused of being a thug who killed Vince Foster to shut him up. They only settled on Lewinsky after years of a baseless investigation trying to establish the Clintons were mafioso.
I agree with you that racism is alive and well in America, and that Obama's color does incite hatred in some, but for most this isn't about race, it's about politics. They hate Obama because he's a liberal. If he were a Con, a Cain for example, they'd be singing his praises.
I don't either. Things began to get really, really personal somewhere around the bitterness surrounding GWB's (semi-bogus) "winning" of his first presidential election.
Think back to the 90s. This started with Clinton. The effort to impeach him began weeks after he was elected. The Cons have absolutely no interest in sharing this country. They will do anything, burn the house down if that's what it takes, to buck liberal leadership. You hear it daily.
I am willing to share this country with fellow citizens who disagree with me. That's the whole basis of a democratic society. Some would like to see tax cuts. Others would like to see tax hikes. We debate. We vote. We abide by the decision of the majority.
Somewhere along the line the Cons quit believing in the basic social contract of a democracy. Where do we go for here? The unthinkable, another civil war, becomes more and more "thinkable" with each passing year.
My friend .. If you are Army, or even remotely represent today's Army then .. we as a nation are in trouble!
We are NOT and have Never been a Democracy!
We DO NOT govern by the Majority as that would be Mob Rule or a Democracy!
We live in or under the rules of a Republic.
I also disagree with your premise of a coming Civil War because .. I guarantee you that the Majority of Whining, leftist, Liberals are in reality .. The Least Likely to be armed and the Least Likely to be trained in warfare!
I am former Army myself and I've never heard such a twisted and mistaken view come from ANY service member .. I ever knew!
You must not remember the 90s very well. People spoke of the White House as if it was occupied territory. Clinton was accused of being a thug who killed Vince Foster to shut him up. They only settled on Lewinsky after years of a baseless investigation trying to establish the Clintons were mafioso.
I agree with you that racism is alive and well in America, and that Obama's color does incite hatred in some, but for most this isn't about race, it's about politics. They hate Obama because he's a liberal. If he were a Con, a Cain for example, they'd be singing his praises.
Clinton was vilified, but in a different manner. I don't ever remember anyone telling Clinton to go back to Africa or comparing him to an African witch doctor. I don't recall hearing anyone claim that Clinton was going to enslave White people, and Clinton was dubbed the "1st Black President"
I think the most ardent Obama detractors do fear that he will advance minorities at the expense of Whites. Read some of the threads on here.
So in a way, they want to keep not just one Black man down, but many. They seem to believe that if minorities advance, then Whites will decline. It's a zero sum game for them. They don't realize that we are all in this together.
Location: where the moss is taking over the villages
2,184 posts, read 5,551,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem
The 5% who pay the highest taxes already.
The 5% who employ the most.
You can't balance the budget on 5% of the population.
And he's not cutting enough.
Think about how that 5% of the population already has tax deferred retirement plans, like other people in the lower paid demographics... That tax deferred money, which is a higher dollar amount, even though the percentage of income is the same, is money that is out of the loop of supporting the tax coffers.
I think that 5% of the population that probably reaped millions upon millions of dollars during the real estate boom with tax free sales - they can cough up some of that money for the better of the nation.
That's my taxed 2 cents worth : ) of an opinion. I hope it makes sense...
The Cons are going to accuse you of race-baiting, but your assessment is on the right track. I don't think the problem is that Obama is black so much, however. It's that he's a liberal.
Listen to Con rhetoric. For as long as I've been alive, 35 years, they have preached that liberals are seditious, immoral thieves who want to destroy America. They hate liberals. They will not abide liberal leadership. They will do everything in their power to obstruct a liberal government, even if it means bankrupting the country... literally.
The Cons are Cons first, Americans second. I say this because the Cons do not recognize liberals are fellow citizens. They are not interested in peaceful coexistance with liberals. They do not have any interest or willingness in sharing the country with liberal citizens.
This is a real problem. I don't see how we can go on as a nation when so many have this mindset.
I am a liberal. I am also a patriot. I am veteran of the Iraq war and still in the Army. I just happen to think that its good for society to tax wealth. I also happen to think that despite the tired rhetoric, government can be a force for good and can accomplish great things. Government has been instrumental in many of our past national successes. I'd like to see an appropriately sized government for a complex society.
Does this make me a criminal who doesn't deserve any say whatsoever in our democratic society? Apparently so. That's how the Cons feel about it. My patriotism and sanity are questioned daily by the blaring voices on the radio.
I am willing to share this country with fellow citizens who disagree with me. That's the whole basis of a democratic society. Some would like to see tax cuts. Others would like to see tax hikes. We debate. We vote. We abide by the decision of the majority.
Somewhere along the line the Cons quit believing in the basic social contract of a democracy. Where do we go for here? The unthinkable, another civil war, becomes more and more "thinkable" with each passing year.
Don't feel alone, you're a rational, thinking person, and rational, thinking people agree with you. There are far more of us than the amplified lunatic fringe, who have the backing of corporate America and the astroturf Tea Party movement, a "movement" that speaks for about 10-15% of Americans, or the lunatic fringe.
It's that 25-35% of independents who are under assault by the conservative media (not to include Fox, which is not the media but propaganda),
We can only hope that 25-35% of independents are smart enough to see past lies and distractions put forth by the obstructionists.
My friend .. If you are Army, or even remotely represent today's Army then .. we as a nation are in trouble!
We are NOT and have Never been a Democracy!
We DO NOT govern by the Majority as that would be Mob Rule or a Democracy!
We live in or under the rules of a Republic.
I also disagree with your premise of a coming Civil War because .. I guarantee you that the Majority of Whining, leftist, Liberals are in reality .. The Least Likely to be armed and the Least Likely to be trained in warfare!
I am former Army myself and I've never heard such a twisted and mistaken view come from ANY service member .. I ever knew!
Behold, folks. MrClose, really? What I have said is that intolerable and perverse and twisted? I simply disagree with you about tax rates. For that, you question my fitness for service? Even though I have put my life on limb on the line for this nation more than once?
Again, the Cons no longer believe in the fundamental principals or practices of a democratic society. We disagree. We vote. We abide by the majority decision. They can not, and will not, abide anything that's not 100 percent their way.
This can't go on. Something is going to give.
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