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Originally Posted by Wapasha
These people already pay a much higher income tax rate, why the class envy? These people are already paying close to a combined state, federal, county and local tax of 50% tax, if not over 50%.
Meanwhile, 40% or more of Americans pay no federal income tax at all, and many of them even get back more in their tax refund then they paid in.
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Let's get rid of this lie.
50% of tax units in the United States have a negative or null income tax responsibility. That 50% represents incomes of 33k a year, which includes families.
As I've stated before. Raise a family of four on 33k a year. Don't forget to send them to college.
Not to mention,
everybody pays federal taxes.
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Originally Posted by lorrysda
Actually, you are incorrect. The education system of which you are speaking was back in the 40's and 50's...that's the one that got us to the moon.
Today's education system is one awful mess from pre-school to PhD's! The more we spend the worse the education level of the graduates.
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Can you provide evidence of this claim? Increased school spending resulting in worse results in education? Are you even willing to stand behind this claim?
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Thank heavens we have some parents around that realize it is themselves that need to take a hand and either home school or at least contribute to the education areas that today's schools lack or misrepresent.
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The
vast Majority of home-school parents are far-right Christian nutcases who are upset that their children are learning about the Theory of Evolution in high-school.
I'd rather have an inefficient public school system than some theocratic propaganda program.
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Originally Posted by pghquest
Using that theory, the federal government should tax EVERYONE at 100%. Think of how fabulous the economy would and how much revenue the us govt could have. Wow.. Your utopia world defies common sense.
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You're attacking a strawman. A lot of the reinvesting a company can do can be written off as an expense, and isn't liable to taxes. Increasing taxes on corporations forces them to either reinvest their profits, or risk having them taken by the government.
Lower taxes just allows the executives to line their pockets
even more. Someone else mentioned it, but executives are making a hundred times more than their average employee. That's gross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
FAIL. The class warfare was declared by left wing kooks who think the government is there to support and maintain peoples livelyhood by giving them a check monthly which keeps them in poverty.
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Rhetoric. Explain, in detail, how social welfare programs keeps people in poverty. Don't forget to show the numbers.
[qupte]How the hell do you expect people living on social security, welfare, etc to compete against those who get out and earn a living and invest everyday of their lives?[/quote]
Those living on welfare? They're making 16k a year. 22k a year if they have kids. How do you expect them to live when CoL is 36k a year?
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Tell me MTA, why is it the tops fault that so many at the bottom decide to settle for poverty?
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How is the someone on the bottom's fault that small-cell lung cancer bankrupted him, and his family, trying to make medical payments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ATX
Let's use a smaller scale "dollarnaire" to try and help the Obamabots:
Jimmy runs a lemonade stand, kills it all summer. gets home and mom says "you have to give Billy next door 50% of what you made off your lemonade stand". Jimmy says "but Billy sat up and watched cartoons all summer, that's not right mom!"
Do you think it's fair for Jimmy to have to break down his money like that? simple answer yes or no.
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Yes. Billy lives in a dog-house out back while Jimmy has his own tree-house, which his father built for him. Billy tried opening his own lemonade stand, but Jimmy's anti-competitive attitude and cronyism allowed him to score favorable deals with lenders, and Billy was unable to get his lemonade stand opened.
And the Billy developed childhood lymphoma, bankrupted him, and now he can only get by through the barely adequate funds he gets from the Neighborhood watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
So how high can you raise taxes before it does kill jobs, or do you think even at 100% tax rate would not affect a business owner?
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Anything over 0% is going to affect the business owner. Considering the ability of businesses and business owners to prosper even in the last fifty years, with tax rates as high as 90%, I'd say they can go pretty high.
But that is the purpose of high tax rates on corporations. They either invest their money (which is deductible), or they lose it to the government. Either way, the economy prospers. Where it doesn't prosper, is when executives line their pockets with the record profits they recieve, because they
don't lose their profits to taxes, and they have no reason to invest into the company they preside over.
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Businesses survive according to their profit margin. If they have money left over after business expenses, payroll and taxes, it becomes their profit. If you tax and regulate them more, there will be less in profits, and they will need to cut expenses, or raise the cost, or the fees, for their product.
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Human greed. Those profits are place in pockets. Investments into a company are deductible. Business owners want lower taxes so they can have more money, without any of it going down to their employees. It's called Trickle Down because it--trickles down.
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If I was a business owner and you raised my taxes, i may no longer have the profit margins to expand my business,
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Expansion is an expense.
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and I may even be forced to cutback to remain in business.
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You have to cutback to keep your 20,000 bonus that year. I'm assuming you're part of a small business which brings in 500,000 a year is business.
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If i am a manufacturer, and my foreign competitors realize my taxes just went up, they will have an advantage against me, and will use it against me.
If you support increased taxes, don't complain when more jobs go overseas, and more businesses can no longer remain competitive and go out of business.
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There isn't any demand. We'd have more manufacturing
here if people had money
here to spend.
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Originally Posted by lorrysda
Here's a though! For every law and/or regulation passed, 5 must be rescinded. And...every law and/or regulation passed must have a sunset date so that in order to continue, that law or regulation must be re-evaluated to see if it has worked, does work or will still work. If not, it is gone! I think that's a good start toward correcting our mess.
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Great idea, this sunset clause. However, you'll incur increased costs in the amount of research required to track and follow every law enacted.
Are you ready to triple the size of the costs of laws in the longitudinal studies required annually for each and every law enacted, or is the prior research showing the effects of the laws sufficient to enact them?
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Originally Posted by MTAtech
Be specific. What exactly about the regulations hamper business? You can't possibly be arguing that unless business has the 'freedom' to pollute at will or not protect the public safety by assuring product safety, they can't be in business.
To prove that this narrative is pure BS, corporations are posting record profits. Yet, they aren't hiring.
Of course, the real reason businesses aren't hiring is simply that demand is down and they require fewer people and have no need to buy new equipment.
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Ding.
Ding.
Ding.
Demand runs the economy--not supply, so these supply-side economics of cutting and cutting of taxes on "job creators" isn't going to to anything. We have the lowest taxes in fifty years, and the economy continues to be in the ****ter. Why? Because supply-side economics does absolutely nothing for demand, which is the
real problem we have in the United States economy.
You know what helps demand? Keynesian economics. You have to invest in the people of the United States through social welfare programs, stimulus plans, tax reductions on the lower and middle class--I.E., give them the money to spend, not the wealthy, in order to drive your demand up.
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Originally Posted by 512ATX
It's not the businesses responsibility to "care" about the welfare of it's employees..that's for the employees themselves to focus on, if they wanna keep the job that the millionaire hire them for. the business is in business to make MONEY...they can hire somebody else who is in better shape in a snap. so save the "big business should help me" speech..they already helped you by hiring you. the rest is on you..
AND Power and Money is what CAPITALISM is all about. where did you go to school son?
Capitalism has also been about competition. not welfare.
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Capitalism has
never been about competition. It tries to destroy competition, which is why the government is there to regulate it in the first place. "The Market" is a euphemism for human greed. It isn't the companies responsibility to "care" about the welfare of the nation--it's the government. Companies and corporations are not people--they don't get freedom.
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Originally Posted by k.smith904
spending your way out of debt is like f*cking your way out of AIDS.
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Cute, but wrong. While every other European nation was cutting spending and enforcing austerity measures, Germany was spending. It had cash-for-clunkers programs, it invested in social welfare, and now? Now Germany has the strongest economy in Europe.
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Originally Posted by 512ATX
That won't stop the business train. just ask Bill Gates, Dell, Hershey, McDonald's,Coca-Cola, Pepsi, the list goes on.
the worker don't dictate nothing in business. the market does. and he who captures his market deserves the riches in that market. period.
look at Facebook. the guy found a niche now he's a millionaire. should he fork over 30% of his profits to the people on welfare?
NO.
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And now the truth. It isn't who works hard that gets the money, it's whomever cheats the system. Excuse me, "captures the market."
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too high for humble
