Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Individual liberty stops, the moment my taxes get raised, to pay for all of the healthcare costs surrounding smoking. IF, which will never happen, thanks to liberals, you get a smoking related disease, which was caused by smoking and I don't have to pay for it, fine. EXCEPT, don't make me smell your nasty a$$ed habit. Cigarettes permeate my clothes and make them STINK.
If you want to smoke, fine. Do it in YOUR house. Don't do it in public and, more importantly, don't make me pay for your mistakes. That means your healthcare, because of smoking related problems.
If, for the obesity crowd, wants to include it. Fine. DO SO. I have no problem with that.
Smoking is still, the most disgusting, filthy, ****ty habit on earth and should be banned.
How much has smoking caused your healthcare to increase? I'm asking you, in particular, because of your vehement anti-smoking position.
I see the smoking increases healthcare cost given as a "known" but I have yet to see some concrete numbers that actually give the data component of this "known", especially given how few actually smoke. Doesn't heart disease contribute to more deaths than anything else? Wouldn't that suggest bad eating habits is a more costly issue?
How much has smoking caused your healthcare to increase? I'm asking you, in particular, because of your vehement anti-smoking position.
I see the smoking increases healthcare cost given as a "known" but I have yet to see some concrete numbers that actually give the data component of this "known", especially given how few actually smoke. Doesn't heart disease contribute to more deaths than anything else? Wouldn't that suggest bad eating habits is a more costly issue?
If smokers die younger on average than non-smokers then smokers cost less to the healthcare system. They won't live in Medicare funded nursing homes until they are 100 and won't collect nearly as much Social Security.
How much has smoking caused your healthcare to increase? I'm asking you, in particular, because of your vehement anti-smoking position.
I see the smoking increases healthcare cost given as a "known" but I have yet to see some concrete numbers that actually give the data component of this "known", especially given how few actually smoke. Doesn't heart disease contribute to more deaths than anything else? Wouldn't that suggest bad eating habits is a more costly issue?
Absolutely it has. If you haven't seen healthcare costs lately, they are skyrocketing. ONE of the reasons is the fact people are living longer. Another reason is the fact, these idiots who smoke, cause our healthcare costs to go up. Healthcare costs go up, I pay more. YOU pay more. WE ALL pay more; for an issue which could be prevented.
Yes, argue eating fast food, being fat, et al is just as bad. You won't get a peep out of me. I make it easy. Something you, nor anyone else wants to do. If you engage in ANYTHING, which causes healthcare to go up, you are on your own. YOU pay for it yourself. Skydiving and your chute don't open? On you. Scuba dive and you get the BENS? On you. Smoke and you get lung cancer? On you. Eat fatty foods and you get diabetes? ON YOU.
Its a simple term: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. People want to stick these cancer sticks in their mouths and when they get sick, they want to charge the rest of us for their care. Yes, I don't CARE they die. THEY made that choice, when they sucked in that disgusting, filthy cigarette.
Take responsibility for yourself and quit passing the financial costs onto the rest of us. When you do, then smoke all you want. As long as I don't have to smell it, breath it, or get it in my clothes.
Individual liberty stops, the moment my taxes get raised, to pay for all of the healthcare costs surrounding smoking. IF, which will never happen, thanks to liberals, you get a smoking related disease, which was caused by smoking and I don't have to pay for it, fine. EXCEPT, don't make me smell your nasty a$$ed habit. Cigarettes permeate my clothes and make them STINK.
If you want to smoke, fine. Do it in YOUR house. Don't do it in public and, more importantly, don't make me pay for your mistakes. That means your healthcare, because of smoking related problems.
If, for the obesity crowd, wants to include it. Fine. DO SO. I have no problem with that.
Smoking is still, the most disgusting, filthy, ****ty habit on earth and should be banned.
I'm guessing that it is me paying your insurance instead of the other way around if you are still a cop.
If smokers die younger on average than non-smokers then smokers cost less to the healthcare system. They won't live in Medicare funded nursing homes until they are 100 and won't collect nearly as much Social Security.
In general I agree with this position. But it gets murky for me when we consider the danger of second hand smoke to workers. Yes they can choose not to work there, but as a society we seem to prioritize a person's right to find work. Safe work. We regulate worker safety in manufacturing plants. So it isn't crazy to regulate the air that workers breathe.
Yes, I agree. It also becomes questionable when a business is located next to other businesses. When the walls are shared and possibly a common attic area exist it might be a problem. Smoke can't be contained.
How much has smoking caused your healthcare to increase? I'm asking you, in particular, because of your vehement anti-smoking position.
I see the smoking increases healthcare cost given as a "known" but I have yet to see some concrete numbers that actually give the data component of this "known", especially given how few actually smoke. Doesn't heart disease contribute to more deaths than anything else? Wouldn't that suggest bad eating habits is a more costly issue?
Annual smoking-related health care costs and lost productivity in NY total $14.2 billion
Annual health care expenditures in the State directly caused by tobacco use: $8.17 billion
Annual State Medicaid program's total health expenditures caused by tobacco use: $5.47 billion
Annual health care expenditures in New York from secondhand smoke exposure: $317 million
Residents' state/federal taxes to cover smoking-caused gov't costs: $5.9 billion ($903/household)
Smoking-caused productivity losses in New York: $6.05 billion
Smoking-caused health costs and productivity losses per pack sold in New York: $21.91
Individual liberty stops, the moment my taxes get raised, to pay for all of the healthcare costs surrounding smoking. IF, which will never happen, thanks to liberals, you get a smoking related disease, which was caused by smoking and I don't have to pay for it, fine. EXCEPT, don't make me smell your nasty a$$ed habit. Cigarettes permeate my clothes and make them STINK.
You don't pay for their costs, unless... you are arguing for those filching off government systems... and well... at that point, the problem isn't the smoking, its the filching and at that point you should be EXTREMELY angry at the liberals trying to push you into a stupid system where they CAN start to dictate your lifestyle. If you think it stops with smoking, then you aren't paying attention. You do realize what is going on in Europe? How they are now justifying more and more laws dictating to people what they can eat, how they can live, because... well... you know.. the public is paying for it through healthcare? Its a trap.
As for the smell, I sympathize with you. I don't smoke, I hate the smell... BUT, I will take the chance of walking by someone in public (who I can either choose to avoid or escape) over people telling me and my fellow Americans what they can and can't do. Frankly, I would rather fight a war to the death than accept that blatant violation of mine and their rights, and like I said... I don't even smoke.
So my suggestion is you channel that anger, that demand, that urgency on those who would strip people of their rights because when they take away the liberties of doing something I dislike from my neighbor and I allow it, I am consenting to them taking away my own liberties. It is time we start pushing back on them rather than squabbling over personal acceptance of actions and behavior. If it is your liberty, I will defend it to my death, even if I despise the action of that liberty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
If you want to smoke, fine. Do it in YOUR house. Don't do it in public and, more importantly, don't make me pay for your mistakes. That means your healthcare, because of smoking related problems.
You either respect someones liberty or you do not. It is as simple as that. I run in to things every day that people do that I absolutely despise and I could make a pretty darn valid argument to demand they stop doing it in public because it offends me, but like I said, doing so would hurt me as well as them. If you don't like smoking, then do not go to restaurants that allow it, avoid people who do it, and be responsible for yourself.
Again, on the healthcare issue. I don't smoke, but if I did, YOU AREN'T PAYING FOR IT! I would pay for it with my premiums and all the costs associated with it concerning my PRIVATE policy. As I said, if you are complaining about people who live off government concerning such health care, then maybe you should object a lot more about the infringements of such systems that force us to pay for it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
If, for the obesity crowd, wants to include it. Fine. DO SO. I have no problem with that.
Ok, and when there is something else you do that I want to demand you do not do, I can run to mama government and whine until they tell you that you can't do it as well? Are you saying that is ok? If you are, then you do not respect individual liberty, and that means nobody should respect yours. None, nothing, absolutely nothing, not even your liberty of life. You forfeit it with your disrespect of others. That acceptable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
Smoking is still, the most disgusting, filthy, ****ty habit on earth and should be banned.
Yes, yes, we know... you dislike it, you see nothing wrong with using government to dictate your personal dislikes. Well, don't whine when it bites you in the back, because for every whine you have about another, there is someone who has a whine about you. Eventually, it will catch up to you and you will have no right to complain and nobody will care about your predicament. In fact, many will revel in it as they are scavenging the bones of their fellow citizens with their next scheme to sell out ones liberty to the government.
Frankly, I think those who do not respect individual liberty are disgusting, worthless garbage who deserve to be treated like slaves and have their rights, their liberties, their freedoms stripped from them so they can be put in their place as fodder for those who would control them.
Yes, people are generally for individual liberty until they want to see something eliminated they do not personally care for or want to see. Freedom is about more than just allowing those things that align with your personal views, it is also about allowing those things that you do not agree with but should still be in the realm of individual choice.
Yes, but when someone's individual choice interferes with another's ability to breathe clean air (a basic human right) we have to draw a line. Smoking is an acquired habit. Breathing clean air is not.
I know it's a hard habit to kick, and my smoking friends have my sympathy and support. For years I was left in the lurch unable to go places because of the smoke inside -- a sort of discrimination. Banning smoking indoors allows everyone to enjoy places, and providing a smoke room (with proper ventilation) or a comfortable outdoor lounge (heated/cooled for climate) allows those who've adopted the smoking habit to engage in it. Everyone wins.
Seeing many businesses rent or lease their facilities, I don't see how this would be a property rights issue, unless the business owner owned the building the business was in and engaged in an enterprise like a cigar smoking lounge.
Last edited by OhBeeHave; 09-19-2011 at 08:53 PM..
Reason: left out a few words
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
