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KUchief25...all those countries CHOSE to be the "collective" when they formed the EU. You can't just choose to be part of the collective when times are good and refuse to play when times are bad.
Like the banks that gave loans out to folks that couldn't afford them, the EU took in countries that spent more than they had in revenue. That risk has come home to roost and like it or not, the EU countries have to deal with it.
If the UK doesn't like the rules then they should leave the EU rather than put up a stink like a spoiled child who can't call the shots anymore.
KUchief25...all those countries CHOSE to be the "collective" when they formed the EU. You can't just choose to be part of the collective when times are good and refuse to play when times are bad.
Like the banks that gave loans out to folks that couldn't afford them, the EU took in countries that spent more than they had in revenue. That risk has come home to roost and like it or not, the EU countries have to deal with it.
If the UK doesn't like the rules then they should leave the EU rather than put up a stink like a spoiled child who can't call the shots anymore.
The problem is the euro is not really a collective. You have 17 different countries with different cultures, economies and fiscal regimes using the same currency.
They thought of this would be overcome somewhat with the free movement of labor but what is happening is that EU residents are mostly sedentary.
They should leave the EU as should everybody else. I see don't see the stink. Time these folks stood up for their own countries instead of watching them collapsing in this mess. It will happen anyway they are just prolonging it a hundred billion at a time. What does that buy anymore a week or so?
Germany and France have the financial clout. Britain just isn't top dog and soon enough will realize it.
Not to worry, Britain will always be Top Lap Dog (to the US).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001
The Euro was great for Germany. They got a currency - the Euro - which was 'cheaper' than the old Deutschmark but most of their competitors in Europe got a currency that was more 'expensive' than the one they had before. So Germany made a ton of money out of being in the Euro while weaker countries (the PIIGS) did less well. Now that the bill for their prosperity has come due, Germany is looking for someone else to pay.
I guess you don't remember Italy devaluing the Lira.
And I guess you weren't sitting in Sgt Pepper's in Lloret de Mar on the Costa Brava chasing Welsh tarts and drinking double shot Bloody Mary's and paying only $0.08 because $1 was worth 32 Spanish Pesetas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001
Germany needs the Euro. They cannot afford to go back to the Deutschmark as its valuation would kill their exports. The question is whether they manage to get others to pay for them.
Germany's Deutschmark was weak.
I remember when it was $1 = 3.54 DM and buying BMW 325s for a couple thousand, paying $270 to ship them from Bremerhaven to Norfolk, and then having a high school buddy selling them for $15,000 (they sold for $36,000 on the show-room floor).
We made some bucks.
Before Germany switched to the Euro, $1 was about 1.42 DM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
My knowledge is limited too, but I have some thoughts. For instance, I do know that GB and Ireland have a lot of the populist demagoguery we have here. They love to rage against the EU, unless they see something in it for themselves. Trust me, the Brits would never pass an opportunity to get something for nothing, but tend to not want to support the continental experiment when they think it will cost them.
I used to live in Queen's Park (a London suburb) and the impression I got was that their version of the Baby Boomers were opposed to the EU and more aligned to Canada/US, while the younger crowd embraced the EU and saw themselves as more European than being aligned with Canada/US.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Greece should never have been allowed to join.
It was a huge mistake, just as it was allowing the former East Bloc countries to join.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit
PIGS, what an apt acronym for some of those EU countries.....
It's actually PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland -- which owes 3 times as much as Greece -- and Spain), but the point is well taken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasvegas
I know. Unfortunately, any discussion with these people involving Europe always ends in anti-socialism tirades.
Um, which part of Socialism in Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain was not a proximate cause of the current crisis?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA
The problem is the euro is not really a collective. You have 17 different countries with different cultures, economies and fiscal regimes using the same currency.
So. The strength of the Euro comes from the collective use by those countries.
Remember the value of any currency is based on Supply & Demand, and to a lesser extent confidence in the currency/government.
Even with high confidence in the Norwegian government and the Kroner, it did not have high demand on the world market, and so its value was always less than the US Dollar.
Same was true for the French Franc and German Mark.
For the umteenth time, the disagreement was not about bailout money, but balanced budget proposal and other austerity measures.
There are many reasons why David Cameron said no.
Such as the EU getting to see a country's budget before their own elected people.
Or the Tobin tax which would have cost the UK's most important 'industry', finance, dearly. 80% of all financial transactions pass through London, the City of London is the UK's largest exporter and London alone accounts for over 11% of the UK's Gross Domestic Product so the choice was obvious.
It has nothing at all to do with hating Europe, but it is fairly obvious a large amount of money collected through taxes from the City of London would have gone to try and prop up the failing Eurozone, and the Tobin tax would have forced financial institutions to flee London and go to the likes of New York and Hong Kong. Sweden imposed something similar in the 1990's and 90% of Stockholm's financial institutions fled to London.
Oh, and as the above poster points out, Britain has always looked overseas for its closest allies, such as the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. During the late 19th century, a popular slogan for the Conservative party was 'Splendid Isolation', a phrase conjured up by a Canadian politician who admired Britain for not getting involved in European politics. We are an island nation, we have maritime interests, we have always traded globally and not just with one continent which has never been particularly fond of us to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasvegas
Bad decision.
Way to go. Distance your country from a group to which more than half of your trade is with.
The decision will not affect our trade with the European Union. We will always trade with the European Union even if we left.
40% of our products go to Europe but 60% go elsewhere.
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 12-10-2011 at 07:01 PM..
Such as the EU getting to see a country's budget before their own elected people.
The balanced budget agreement is something each member country should discuss very carefully before agreeing. Such measure does corrode the country's sovereignty, as it gives EU authority to enforce buget controls to the member countries, which naturally means they would not contol their own budgets any more. One Finnish presidental candidate said they might as well abolish the finnish parliament if they agree to the budget measure. It would be a huge step towards 'United States of Europe", and I am not sure if that is what they want.
The balanced budget agreement is something each member country should discuss very carefully before agreeing. Such measure does corrode the country's sovereignty, as it gives EU authority to enforce buget controls to the member countries, which naturally means they would not contol their own budgets any more. One Finnish presidental candidate said they might as well abolish the finnish parliament if they agree to the budget measure. It would be a huge step towards 'United States of Europe", and I am not sure if that is what they want.
NWO..still tin foil ?
It may not be what they want, but when they all agreed to use the Euro they became dependent on each other's ability to stay financially stable.
They are now living a nightmare that they probably thought would never happen.
Personally I agree with the british on this, though my government is on germany and frances side for some reason. It's always the mediterrainians who doesn't want to hold their end of the bargain when it comes to financial rules and keeping away from corruption, always.
And if Italy doesn't start taking care of buisness they'll go the same way as greece too.
It may not be what they want, but when they all agreed to use the Euro they became dependent on each other's ability to stay financially stable.
They are now living a nightmare that they probably thought would never happen.
During the formation of the union a lot of North Europeans predicted that countries like Italy, Spain, Greece will become a burden.
Well, if they enact balanced budget amedment, then we will have an example to observe while we discuss doing the same here. It will be easier for the north Europeans to balance their budgets than it will be for the southern ones.
Personally I agree with the british on this, though my government is on germany and frances side for some reason. It's always the mediterrainians who doesn't want to hold their end of the bargain when it comes to financial rules and keeping away from corruption, always.
And if Italy doesn't start taking care of buisness they'll go the same way as greece too.
I thought Sweden opted out of it like UK did.
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