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Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,142,915 times
Reputation: 2677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob
Disney already has cruises to Port Caneveral on the east coast as part of their vacation packages. The high speed rail line would have turned Tampa into a cruise port in addition many people commute between Tampa & Orlando on a daily basis & the Feds were paying over 90% of the cost! That is true infrastructure spending and Disney doesn't invest in a project that will fail so they obviously knew it would be a boon to their business.
Tampa already has a cruise port. Went out of there once myself.
Believe me, I have family in St Pete, we own property in Polk County, and my son was for a while in Miami, so I'm well aware of FL's issues... and I don't disagree with much your saying re: Florida... but...
Do you actually work in the oil/gas business, the pipeline business, or any other business which you seem to be so vehemently against? Or is it all just posturing for whichever political side you may agree with?
Yes.. some of the jobs created will be in Canada... but the jobs here will be good-paying construction jobs (abeit temporary), paid for by PRIVATE funds, there will be a benefit to those communities where the workers are, and other industries will benefit. You do realize this right? Or do you just sit and make judgments on things you don't really know about firsthand because of what you read?
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,142,915 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob
I consider 1/3 a bit more than "some".
Honestly Bob... what does it matter to you? Are you paying for it? Or are you sitting in judgment of something that you really have no part of? I'm asking seriously... Just tell me how this pipeline affects you in Florida? Do you have first-hand pipeline knowledge that we that actually build these things do not?
The real problem with these federal seed money transportation projects, high speed rail in particular, is the ongoing costs do not project to be covered by the projected ongoing revenues. They become long term black holes, that continue to suck in tax dollars.
So, in a sense, this like buying the proverbial pig in a poke. It is why, both Florida and New jersey, wisely opted out of these deals.
Long view folks. Long view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob
I will take your second point as gospel because I think many Americans would be SHOCKED to find that the Oil that flows through the Alaskan pipeline isn't destined for US markets but to Japan and other Asian nations who outbid the US on the world Oil market!
This is nothing but a sham by private companies that will do very little to benefit the US.
Meanwhile I had the "tea party" Governor of my state of Florida reject High speed rail which would have created 25,000 "temporary jobs" but would have fostered true economic growth between Tampa & Orlando as "Socialism".
Tampa already has a cruise port. Went out of there once myself.
Believe me, I have family in St Pete, we own property in Polk County, and my son was for a while in Miami, so I'm well aware of FL's issues... and I don't disagree with much your saying re: Florida... but...
Do you actually work in the oil/gas business, the pipeline business, or any other business which you seem to be so vehemently against? Or is it all just posturing for whichever political side you may agree with?
Aus? trust me it isn't political posturing on my part and I'm not against the Oil/Gas business but I do have concerns about the environmental impact as expressed by Nebraskans.
I had a family member who lived in Nebraska for 3 years and they might be a Red & Conservative state but they do care about their environment which really shouldn't be a partisan issue. They consider their land pristine so objections are a forgone conclusion.
As a Floridian I will oppose any offshore drilling of off our coasts. I do not want to go to the shore and see Oil derrick platforms as you see in Texas or Louisiana.
Alas if you read my previous post most of the Alaskan crude Oil is being shipped to Japan and other Asian nations that don't have Oil simply because they outbid us.
I don't think this pipeline will do anything to get us off our dependecy on foreign Oil & to tie this with extending UnEmployment benefits & a payroll tax cut is simply disgusting.
.
The real problem with these federal seed money transportation projects, high speed rail in particular, is the ongoing costs do not project to be covered by the projected ongoing revenues. They become long term black holes, that continue to suck in tax dollars.
So, in a sense, this like buying the proverbial pig in a poke. It is why, both Florida and New jersey, wisely opted out of these deals.
Long view folks. Long view.
So you basically are telling me that Interstate highways that are free & were built by taxpayers pay for themselves?
You know I live in a city were practically every expressway is tolled. I avoid them and use surface streets yet I am still be charged every time I pump a gallon of gas into my tank to subsidize these "freeways"!
I'm always amazed how trains in Hong Kong (MRT) always seem to turn a profit yet the US can't fathom how to do the same!
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,142,915 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob
Aus? trust me it isn't political posturing on my part and I'm not against the Oil/Gas business but I do have concerns about the environmental impact as expressed by Nebraskans.
I had a family member who lived in Nebraska for 3 years and they might be a Red & Conservative state but they do care about their environment which really shouldn't be a partisan issue. They consider their land pristine so objections are a forgone conclusion.
As a Floridian I will oppose any offshore drilling of off our coasts. I do not want to go to the shore and see Oil derrick platforms as you see in Texas or Louisiana.
Alas if you read my previous post most of the Alaskan crude Oil is being shipped to Japan and other Asian nations that don't have Oil simply because they outbid us.
I don't think this pipeline will do anything to get us off our dependecy on foreign Oil & to tie this with extending UnEmployment benefits & a payroll tax cut is simply disgusting.
.
Rob... believe it or not.. I didn't have a problem with Nebraska's concerns. We've worked in NE and it is a wonderful place with warm, wonderful, caring people. While I didn't share the concerns they did, but I can understand where it was coming from. When the decision to move it away from the aquifir, I felt it was the best decision from both parties involved.
And.. I can see your point re off-shore drilling. We were in Mobile/Pensacola last year so I saw first hand what the BP catastrophe was. And there is a lot of blame there to go around.. but that's been hashed to death here so I won't go into it again.
The point that I'm trying to make with all this, is people come here onto CD and start spewing so much garbage and then folks start spewing the truth and most believe the one that goes along side their political views. And that usually isn't the case. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. I said all along that pipelines are not perfect. But... the pipelines and we the people who build them are not the devil incarnate either. We care about our environment, and we care about the towns and areas we are working in. We care about doing a good job and we care about our country. We provide the safest option for transporting the oil and gas that keep this country running (and unless your off-grid living off the land you use it!).
thing is it will no doubt be approved after the 2012 election if you vote for Obama he will say the review of the new route shows it to be safe and apporve and if you Vote Republican it will be approved as one og the first things they do.
Until that time increased use of freight trains and rail transit will be how it will gets to the Gulf refineries... Or.... is shipped out of B.C. to Asia via tankers ships.
Also the current pipelines in the US are bring doubled are being to get rid of bottlenecks in cushing flow more Cushing oklahoma where Enbridge is already building the new pipeline right now.
Expanded oil pipeline access from Canada to the Gulf Coast took a leap forward Tuesday when partners Enbridge Inc and Enterprise Products announced plans for adding to their reversal of Seaway.
Enbridge said in a news release it will proceed with its Gulf Coast Access project, adding a line parallel to its Spearhead line from Flanagan, Illinois, to Cushing, Oklahoma, to feed into Seaway beginning in mid-2014.
Enterprise Products and Enbridge also announced plans to seek shipper interest in expanding Seaway after it is reversed from the Cushing, Oklahoma, hub to Houston and extending it to Beaumont and Port Arthur, Texas, by early 2014.
Enbridge and Enterprise on already are partners in reversing the existing 500-mile Seaway line to carry crude oil from the trading and storage hub at Cushing, Oklahoma, to the Gulf Coast at Houston.
Plans call for 150,000 barrels per day (bpd) to be flowing from Cushing by second quarter 2012 and 400,000 bpd by early 2013.
Enbridge’s new Flanagan South Pipeline paralleling Spearhead would feed into Seaway at Cushing. Enbridge said it could spend as much as US$1.9-billion on the project after getting sufficient shipper support in an open season.
Canada’s two major railroad companies have begun making regular shipments of oil, in a move that changes how Canadian crude moves to market – and opens the door to new destinations for energy exports, including Asia.
Although pipelines continue to carry the overwhelming majority of Canada’s oil production, both Canadian National Railway Co. and Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. have begun using their rail networks to deliver crude, moving past technological tests into actual commercial service.
The idea of a “pipeline on rails” has been quietly pursued by both CN and CP in recent years. The railways believe their tracks can divert oil to the best possible markets at any given time, freeing energy producers from the constraints of pipelines, which are built to last for decades and as a result cannot quickly be changed to accommodate market shifts.
The idea has gained speed in the past year, as oil prices soaring toward $100 (U.S.) a barrel prompt a spike in crude output, creating new volumes that railroads, which don’t have to wait years to build new capacity, can spike. And the ability to transport oil by rail is now building a competitive threat to Canada’s pipeline companies, which have long been the dominant carriers of crude but are working to expand into markets – such as Asia and the Gulf Coast – that are already well-served by rail lines. Rail could, analysts say, prove a viable alternative to major new projects such as Enbridge Inc.’s $5.5-billion Northern Gateway, which would deliver Alberta crude to the B.C. West Coast.
Though rail deliveries remain modest for now, the ability to deliver crude by track promises to transform the way oil moves inside this continent, and how it reaches untapped customers.
“Our unparalleled market reach and flexibility, we feel, gives shippers, buyers … and refineries new options to explore and new ways to reach different markets,” James Cairns, vice-president of petroleum and chemicals with CN, told an Insight Information conference in Calgary last week.
The company has begun sending oil sands bitumen to California; heavy oil from Cold Lake, Alta., to Chicago and Detroit; and crude from the Bakken, a fast-growing play in southern Saskatchewan, to the U.S. Gulf Coast. Though rail does not have the same reach into production fields as pipe – indeed, rail cars are typically loaded and unloaded by truck, which is costly – CN boasts that its tracks lie within 80 kilometres of five million barrels a day of refining capacity, which is more than double Canada’s entire U.S. exports. CN, CP push for a ‘pipeline on rails’ - The Globe and Mail
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