Enough black defensiveness (ammunition, financial, slavery, news)
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Look, I know how schools are funded. They are funded by local property taxes. This is objective reality.
Housing in predominately black neighborhoods are worth less and the people earn less, there is simply less money to spend for school budgets.
You really have no idea, do you? Let me tell you about Milwaukee Public Schools (MPS). MPS is comprised of all of the city of Milwaukee. The surrounding 'burbs have their own school districts, and MPS students are allowed to go to those suburban schools with vouchers (that's how I understand it). MPS has many alternative schools including I believe four Montessori schools, which usually cost a large sum of money to attend in most areas as they are normally private schools. The city of Milwaukee has about as many blacks as it does whites (40% and 44%, respectively) with its overall population decreasing since about 1970.
MPS spent $14k per pupil in 2010, which is the fourth highest in the nation (of the top 50 largest school systems), lower than only places with a significantly higher cost of living (NYC, DC and Baltimore). MPS has about a 33% dropout rate. The average per pupil spending is about $10k across the nation. These are some of the other per pupil expenditures in the 'burbs:
Shorewood $11k
Fox Point $13k
Glendale-River Hills $13k
Nicolet High (kids from the north shore suburbs, i.e., rich 'burbs, that don't have their own high schools) $17k
Maple-Dale/Indian Hill $15k
Whitefish Bay (also known as "white folks bay") $11k
These other schools have a near-nonexistant dropout rate while maintaining lower expenditures per student if you take them all together. They all have significant wealth but choose to fund their schools differently and still all have successful outcomes. MPS simply does not. I wonder why. The inner city is a cesspool and the kids coming out of it have no regard for education since their parents don't give a crap.
The point here is that throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily help anything. MPS is a prime example of how you don't do it.
WTF are generational attitudes? Man, you cats just make stuff up. This is just pure nonsense. More mind reading and make believe.
We have poverty because as a society we want to have poor people. Our economy creates mostly low paying low skilled jobs. We have horrible public schools in many places that do a poor job of preparing students.
The overwhelming majority of all poor people have worked. The majority are currently working. The problem is the jobs they have pay crap wages, have no benefits, college is too expensive, many went to inferior schools.
See I say as a nation we fix those HUGE problems before we get to "generational attitudes"(lol).
If you need an explanation for "generational attitudes," I suggest you just stop with this thread now and don't participate in any of the threads on race or welfare.
We have poverty b/c some people have kids too early in life and do not get a chance to get ahead. That being said, all you have to do is work and do a good job and you can go places in life. Just talk to my husband who started out as a delivery driver at a pizza place at 18 and never went to college and came from a crap mother who didn't teach him jack about the real world...we now own a restaurant franchise b/c he worked his butt off to get out of that life.
Granted, we're not black, so maybe you can just say race is the reason we got to where we are today.
Why is there so much defensiveness among many African-Americans? I'm only going to speak for myself and why sometimes I get defensive. I get defensive because I'm sick and tired of Black people getting stereotyped. I'm Black and I have to deal with that. Some people are saying "if Black people don't want to be stereotyped, then they shouldn't act like stereotypes". I don't act like a stereotype. I know many Black people who DON'T act like stereotypes and they still have to deal with being stereotyped.
I know there are many issues going on. I know that Black men make up the lion's share of killers. Guess what? Alot of people never mention that Black men are also the most likely to BE murdered. I feel like alot of people only care when Black people are doing the killing, and not when Black people are being killed. I know about the low education achievements, out of wedlock birth rates, and high incarceration rates. I know about it from the statistics. Guess what? I'm not part of any of that. However, I notice there are alot of sweeping indictments of Black people based on "statistics". Statistics don't tell the whole story. You know why? Certain statistics don't take into account individuals. When you make generalizations and sweeping indictments, how does it help the individuals who are not guilty? Why should the innocent suffer for the guilty? Please answer that.
I think the reason for the defensiveness, in my opinion, is that I feel like some people only mention certain statistics to put Black people down, as a means of making such arguments as "avoid Black people", "we must have racial separation" or "Black people are mentally inferior". I feel like some people might want to make those arguments, and try to make sweeping indictments that could affect ME. I have ME to worry about. That is part of why the main question for me is "How does this help ME"? I keep asking because no one seems to take individuals into account. Basically, it boils down to Black people being put down all the time, and I don't want to put up with it. In fact, there is a website dedicated to putting Black people down and portraying Black people as inherently bad. It's called "stuffblackpeopledon'tlike". Here is the link:Stuff Black People Don't Like - SBPDL
That is my explanation for the defensiveness.
Well, I know personally, blacks get defensive when statistics are brought up. If it doesn't apply to you, why are you worried about it? You can't have a civilized discussion with a white person about such things? I don't judge anyone until I see how they behave. I have no problem with you if you're not adding to the problem. If you are adding to the problem, in any situation, if you're any race, I DO have a problem with you. Just worry about yourself and you'll be fine. You're basically doing what the OP said to not do.
Well, I know personally, blacks get defensive when statistics are brought up. If it doesn't apply to you, why are you worried about it? You can't have a civilized discussion with a white person about such things? I don't judge anyone until I see how they behave. I have no problem with you if you're not adding to the problem. If you are adding to the problem, in any situation, if you're any race, I DO have a problem with you. Just worry about yourself and you'll be fine. You're basically doing what the OP said to not do.
The fact is, the majority of people who blather on about some statistic or other about black people, do so explicitly because they want to apply the negative part of the statistic to every black person without any further consideration. Yes, black people are fully aware that black people are disproportionally violent. We're also disproportionally the victims of violence, yet strangely, most people feel no desire to bring that second fact up when they decide to harass the black person in the nice car, or to run away from the black guy in the business suit. And unlike the folks that just want to run away or follow us around in stores, or call the cops because we were walking down a streets, we're the ones actively working to lower the crime rate. Sorry, you're black, so you're guilty.
Yes, we're also aware that black people are in poverty. But we also recognize that most white families have been helped out by our governments in ways that most black families are not, that employers discriminate against black job applicants en masse, and that this has an obvious effect on the long-standing differentials in poverty and joblessness. And so, instead of screeching about Affirmative Action or welfare or demanding Mitt Romney's "real" birth certificate, we build mentorship programs, we help one another out, the same way white people do.
I'm sorry, but if we want an actual intelligent discussion on race, then we also need to discuss white people - as well as Asians, Native Americans, and so forth. And when it comes to crime, in the moral sense (including genocide, slavery, internments camps, violation of rights, and so forth), my feeling is that white folks are going to lose, big.
I find it funny that you call other people ignorant but you have made some of the most ill-informed posts on this thread. You're saying that socioeconomic progress in the black community has slowed b/c the "low skilled" jobs are gone. Do you even realize what you're saying here?
Yes, the question is do you know what I am saying? Low skilled jobs that paid relatively well and allowed employees to gain valuable skills in the job market were extremely important for the formation of socioeconomic progress.
You really have no idea, do you? Let me tell you about Milwaukee Public Schools (MPS). MPS is comprised of all of the city of Milwaukee. The surrounding 'burbs have their own school districts, and MPS students are allowed to go to those suburban schools with vouchers (that's how I understand it). MPS has many alternative schools including I believe four Montessori schools, which usually cost a large sum of money to attend in most areas as they are normally private schools. The city of Milwaukee has about as many blacks as it does whites (40% and 44%, respectively) with its overall population decreasing since about 1970.
MPS spent $14k per pupil in 2010, which is the fourth highest in the nation (of the top 50 largest school systems), lower than only places with a significantly higher cost of living (NYC, DC and Baltimore). MPS has about a 33% dropout rate. The average per pupil spending is about $10k across the nation. These are some of the other per pupil expenditures in the 'burbs:
Shorewood $11k
Fox Point $13k
Glendale-River Hills $13k
Nicolet High (kids from the north shore suburbs, i.e., rich 'burbs, that don't have their own high schools) $17k
Maple-Dale/Indian Hill $15k
Whitefish Bay (also known as "white folks bay") $11k
These other schools have a near-nonexistant dropout rate while maintaining lower expenditures per student if you take them all together. They all have significant wealth but choose to fund their schools differently and still all have successful outcomes. MPS simply does not. I wonder why. The inner city is a cesspool and the kids coming out of it have no regard for education since their parents don't give a crap.
The point here is that throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily help anything. MPS is a prime example of how you don't do it.
I don't know if your numbers for Milwaukee are credible, but I do know that when the more successful public school systems are compared to the least successful public school systems money is a difference.
If you need an explanation for "generational attitudes," I suggest you just stop with this thread now and don't participate in any of the threads on race or welfare.
We have poverty b/c some people have kids too early in life and do not get a chance to get ahead. That being said, all you have to do is work and do a good job and you can go places in life. Just talk to my husband who started out as a delivery driver at a pizza place at 18 and never went to college and came from a crap mother who didn't teach him jack about the real world...we now own a restaurant franchise b/c he worked his butt off to get out of that life.
Granted, we're not black, so maybe you can just say race is the reason we got to where we are today.
Yes, I do need an explanation for made up things like generational attitudes.
People who are poor because they have a child were already poor before the child or very near poor before the child. So having children or not doesn't change very much. In fact, statistically speaking the reason so many Americans are willing to work crap jobs year after year is because of their children.
Working hard doesn't mean you'll get ahead in life. The reality is that people who make low wages tend to continue to make low wages.
Yes, I do need an explanation for made up things like generational attitudes.
People who are poor because they have a child were already poor before the child or very near poor before the child. So having children or not doesn't change very much. In fact, statistically speaking the reason so many Americans are willing to work crap jobs year after year is because of their children.
Working hard doesn't mean you'll get ahead in life. The reality is that people who make low wages tend to continue to make low wages.
I think generational attitude means, at least for me, is a reference to people on welfare for generations passing along an entitlement attitude, generation after generation.
Well, I know personally, blacks get defensive when statistics are brought up. If it doesn't apply to you, why are you worried about it? You can't have a civilized discussion with a white person about such things? I don't judge anyone until I see how they behave. I have no problem with you if you're not adding to the problem. If you are adding to the problem, in any situation, if you're any race, I DO have a problem with you. Just worry about yourself and you'll be fine. You're basically doing what the OP said to not do.
You just contradicted yourself, genius. You're still referring to ALL black people with these stats. And that includes him.
Who is telling black people they are inferior nowadays? Today's generations are not hearing this, esp with all sorts of grants being given to basically anybody who wants to go to college, it's basically expected that one will go to college no matter what race they are.
Yes, blacks are a couple points lower on average when it comes to IQ, and Asians are superior to whites in this area. You don't hear whites complaining about the smarts of Asians now, do you? A couple of points honestly makes no difference in everyday life. One standard deviation is 15 points so as long as you are within that first standard deviation from 100, you're probably fine. Some people lack common sense as well so that can hold them back, no matter how intellectually superior they might be. There are people who suffer from other issues like anxiety and that can hold them back. If you actually look at it, as intelligence increases, so does the instance of mental illness (this is anecdotal, feel free to prove me wrong). There is any number of reasons to not succeed but one must be able to push through them if they want something badly enough.
There's always some kind of excuse, though
First of all, White people created those IQ tests. Second of all, Whites haven't been told throughout American history that they were "inferior" or "would never amount to anything". No one was coming up with theories trying to prove that Whites were "inferior". That is why you don't hear Whites complaining about the "smarts of Asians". Whites have been in charge of this country, and some Asian nations were ruled by Europe. Blacks, on the other hand, have historically been subjugated in America. It is the history of racism that has people like me very cynical about IQ tests. I don't trust them.
What I was trying to say is this: "How do we know this isn't a throwback to the days of eugenics and Jim Crow racism"? Furthermore, think about this. The Bell Curve has been of the highest selling books in America. It is also based off of alot of the racist pseudoscience from the 19th century. This was stuff that was basically saying "Black people are an inferior race and there is nothing that can be done about it". It is stuff from those days that make IQ tests controversial. There has been a racial element in this all along.
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