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By law, Obama’s decision was supposed to reflect “the national interest.” His standard was his political interest. The State Department had spent three years evaluating Keystone and appeared ready to approve the project by year-end 2011. Then the administration, citing opposition to the pipeline’s route in Nebraska, reversed course and postponed a decision to 2013 — after the election.
Truly amazing. It is very good this is all over the news, as it should be.
Quote:
The Obama administration wanted this pipeline built from day one--they were trying to force it through
Absolute nonsense. When his environmental base threatened to not support him in 2012, that's when he flushed the jobs down the toilet.
You didn't direct this to me, but I'm going to respond. For heavens sake--can you READ I mean--seriously. Can't you try for just one minute to actually read the threads before you start ranting? If you don't trust what any of us are saying who live in the high plains region, you've been given a million links to credible news sources on this thread that you obviously haven't bothered to read either. If you're questioning anything here that's your problem, because you've been given plenty of back up documentation.
NO ONE said they don't want the pipe line going through Nebraska--just the route through the Sand Hills. The Sand Hills aren't some pretty little park that we're trying to protect--it's hundreds of feet deep sand dunes covered with prairie grass, where the water table of the Ogallala aquifer comes right up to the surface. The aquifer provides the drinking water for the entire state of Nebraska, and a good number of the surrounding states. The Sand Hills cover a huge area--most of the northern/western part of the state, and there's NO PIPE running through there now, because it would be so dangerous to put it there. The existing gas lines etc. in Nebraska all run through the south and the east, where there's a heavy clay layer between the topsoil and the aquifer that would protect it in the case of a leak. There's no protective clay/rock layer in the Sand Hills--a leak there would run right into our water supply. Would you like to drink the water that was surrounding the gulf oil spill? That's what we'd be dealing with here if there was a problem.
The only organized group of Nebraskans who didn't want to change the route were labor unions. If you want a poll of Nebraskans, then get off your lazy butt and look it up yourself--I even gave you the link earlier to the biggest state newspaper. I'm a Nebraskan--what I can tell you is that thousands of local people (not outside activists) turned up for hearings in counties that only have populations of several thousand to begin with. Just how big of an issue do you think it needs to be for a republican governor to go to the huge financial expense of calling a special session of the legislature in the fall just to deal with this issue, and for an almost entirely republican state legislature to pass and sign bills during that session that would push Trans Canada to reroute the line? Do you think they would do that in a republican state if there wasn't massive public out cry, or that they're dumb enough to do that if there's no support? Why on earth would REPUBLICANS--who are generally supportive of the Keystone line--fight the proposed Sand Hills route to begin with if there wasn't a huge public stink over it? Do you think politicians routinely do things that are going to get them fired from their jobs if the public's not behind them? Do you THINK.
Since this seems to be a little too difficult for you to understand, let me spell it out. There was no legitimate reason to run the pipe through the sand hills to begin with, except that it was the shortest, cheapest route for Trans Canada--there were other options. If a leak occurred in the Sand Hills, it would be devastating to the water supply for millions of people--the leak would pour right into our only source of drinking and irrigation water. The state--led by the REPUBLICANS HERE--pushed to move the route of the line to a safer area--that way if there was a leak, it could be contained--they did NOT work to block the line all together. It looks like the pipe will wind up running in another area of the state now, away from the aquifer, and along the existing Keystone line in Nebraska. That's where it should have been planned all along. This has been explained over and over--I'm not explaining it again. I'd suggest you read a da*n newspaper yourself before you start asking more ridiculous questions.
Well after all you've written, you still have not explained the reasoning behind the core issue of this thread, which I'm getting back to.
Let me postulate what happened. Obama kept hesitating on approval because he didn't want to lose his environmental base. Republicans got tired of his political BS and gave him a timeline, since Obama couldn't come up with one himself. Instead of working with Republicans on negotiating a new timeline (which he should have done), Obama used the Republicans as an excuse to cancel the project instead and therefore simultaneously throwing his environmental base a bone and blaming Republicans at the same time. This political calculus only benefits Obama, that's what I'm saying. If we just keep playing these political games, nobody is going to win in the end.
Let me postulate what happened. Obama kept hesitating on approval because he didn't want to lose his environmental base. Republicans got tired of his political BS and gave him a timeline, since Obama couldn't come up with one himself. Instead of working with Republicans on negotiating a new timeline (which he should have done), Obama used the Republicans as an excuse to cancel the project instead and therefore simultaneously throwing his environmental base a bone and blaming Republicans at the same time. This political calculus only benefits Obama, that's what I'm saying. If we just keep playing these political games, nobody is going to win in the end.
Can you read? I've repeated this over and over. Don't look at what a bunch of blogs or editorials trying to spin this to one side or the other are saying--look directly at his speech or a credible news source that's followed the issue closely--I've given you the link to the Lincoln Journal Star twice. You're making a wild guess that he's "blocking this" until after the election for political reasons because it fits your agenda, but that doesn't fit the facts.
The tea party forced him to make a decision on the first application within 60 days, and he couldn't because it's going to change dramatically on the Nebraska section. Although Trans Canada has agreed to move the line out of the Sand Hills after a three year fight, there still is not an agreement on exactly where the new route will run. I'm from Nebraska--we've been told that the new plan to move the line out of the Sand Hills will probably be completed by mid summer. If the tea party would have backed off and not put a deadline on approving or denying the application, they could have revised the first application and approved it during the summer. By forcing him to make a decision now, he had to reject the permit, and now they have to start all over with a new one, dragging the process out even further.
I'm a republican, but do you get just how freaking stupid that was? The tea party thought they were going to back him in the corner to make it look like he was supporting the environmentalists and trying to block this until after the elections. The really funny part is that Trans Canada announced yesterday that they have the authority to go ahead and start working on the line in pieces through the country without the permit, and then tie it together once the permit is accepted. The project is going to go right on schedule. Obama knew that when he made his speech--the State Department has worked hand in hand with Trans Canada from the beginning to force this through. The even funnier part is that the reason Nebraska had to hold a special session to try to block the first route is because Obama's state department refused to look at an alternative route in their environmental impact statement, because the Sand Hills route was the one Trans Canada wanted. The ones who blocked the "Obama" plan were REPUBLICANS in the state of nebraska who didn't want the Trans Canada line running through our drinking water.
Once again, as all this comes out, the tea party is going to look like a bunch of hysterical jacka**es, and I'm sick of it. All you guys seem to do is tell lies, and scream the sky is falling when you have no idea what's going on. That works the first or second time, but you're at the point where no one believes much that you say, because it almost always turns out to be an exaggeration or wrong. We have a saying out here that people live by--"my word is my bond." When you constantly lie, you lose people in the republican base who care about their credibility. Form your own party, because I don't want you in mine. The R's out here got the problem fixed--we didn't need to LIE or to have histrionics to do it--and now we don't need a bunch of half cocked far right wing radicals running around shooting off their mouths when it come to our business. Hopefully you'll all be out of the party after November--it can't be soon enough for me.
No compromise on solutions to fixing the federal budget like scaling back defense spending.
Heck, they even said NO to tax CUTS.
Dem's held both houses and all the power from 07 to 2010
Republican only hold one third of the government now
The Republican house passed a budget sent to the senate, Harry said no
Dem's say no to any spending cuts except national defense.
Dem's do not want to or even tried to compromise on cuts.
Dem's the party of no
No to the keystone piplein jobs and oil.
Did you see the map of the US on the post that showed that although Nebraska has pipelines, at least one that belongs to that group, there is nothing in the west half of the state. Now I live in Kansas and we out west have to depend on the Ogallala Aquifer for our water, also. I was very much against this pipeline in November back when jojan's two links were published but it was late December when we learned that the path to be taken would soon be changed. Did you miss the part about the Nebraska governor backing down after the path was moved east? I have been for this one ever since the path was changed.
Last night I took part in a phone town hall with my Congressman in which he talked about the changed path. He lives right over the aquifer and is a farmer so he was also against this thing at first.
Yes, they do have a pipeline in both Nebraska and Kansas that goes into Oklahoma to a refinery there. Now there will be two although I am sure that we will have to wait for the election before we can begin work. The existing pipeline takes heavy crude from Canada but not the area that is being considered now. I don't think the company acted any more arrogantly than Obama has in his part. He agreed with the Congress to allow this thing to go through until he realized that February is too early for it all to take place.
Congressman Huelskamp told us last night that the Congress is trying to work out something that would take the decision out of the hands of the State Department since they are only involved because Canada is. I see at least enough proof to prove that Obama doesn't care at all about the jobs that could be had sooner than 10 months from now. He has decided that what will play with his political base is to do what he has done and that is going to lose him some votes next fall.
I think that you have been reading mostly what lefties said in this thread not anything from people like me or you may be looking at it differently.
I jumped into the fray very early on, with mb1547 and myself trading barbs over this issue. My early position had all the opinions of:
3 years on the table, 3500 miles of older pipeline already existant, late date objections from state legr's, etc., etc..
I then read some of the responses by mb and many others and came to the conclusions that TransCanada had fore-knowledge of the depth and breadth of the importance of that aquifer.
Why did Keystone I take a hard left/east in the first place?
How did they manage to perform the first laying of Keystone I with all of their interaction with the citizens of Nebraska the first time through with not gaining any understanding of the importance and value placed upon that aquifer IF, as they claim on their website, they allowed, encouraged, and gained 80% or 90% co-operation with lanowners?
I went full circle with my reasoning and came back to:
They did know or ought to have known that "forcing" or attempting to pre-empt the states objection to the pipe running over or through that aquifer by "going over their heads" and dealing directly with Washington instead of the successful prior practice of dealing with the stakeholders themselves was doomed to fail eventually.
It would seem to an observor that their sole purpose with ignoring facts in evidence from their previous transiting the state, years prior, that they were merely concerned with the bottom line costs of routing the pipe as the "crow flys" and not as they claim with a view to considering all aspects.
My position is thus; they gambled and tried one on Nebraska citizens and they got caught bluffing with a pair of deuces; now suck it up, explain to the shareholders how your behaviour has thrown the project into the blender and reach way down into your pockets for another go-round. Simple.
Oh--this is rich. YOU'RE calling someone else a liar?
Three years would have been plenty of time if Trans Canada would have agreed to move it when Nebraska started raising concerns. When you wait until one month before the initial deadline to finally agree to massive changes, it tends to throw a monkey wrench in the plans. If the tea party would have given them the six to nine months THE STATE OF NEBRASKA said it would take to complete the revisions for creating a new route, the first permit could have been approved this summer. It got shot down early by Obama because there was no way it was going to be done in 60 days--we still haven't agreed on a final route--and now they have to start all over with a new application. By denying it early, it gives Trans Canada an additional 30 day head start to start the longer process of resubmission vs. revision. You couldn't have handed a better opportunity to the democrats, because now they really do have every justification in the world to drag this out past the elections if they want to--if they have to go through another period allowing for comments and reviews, it's doubtful that they CAN approve it before the elections. Obama would have been forced into a decision by summer if you would have left it alone. He'll sign it, but now he can blame you for the longer process if it drags on.
Once again, you tea party nut jobs screwed this up, and now you're going to come out of it looking like a bunch of idiots. Nice job. Seriously--get the h*ll out of the R party. You people screw up everything you touch.
The Tea party?? The party is not a "you" its not a single entity, its not a single group, it has no leader, no centralized anything. But apparently "it" is your bogeyman.
The Tea party is a loosely aligned movement, composed of hundreds of separate, unaffiliated groups of nonpartisan, like-minded individuals, centered around a fiscally responsible, less intrusive, less centralized federal government, that more closely follows the US Constitution, what does this movement have to do with an oil pipe line, or the republican party?
The Tea party?? The party is not a "you" its not a single entity, its not a single group, it has no leader, no centralized anything. But apparently "it" is your bogeyman.
The Tea party is a loosely aligned movement, composed of hundreds of separate, unaffiliated groups of nonpartisan, like-minded individuals, centered around a fiscally responsible, less intrusive, less centralized federal government, that more closely follows the US Constitution, what does this movement have to do with an oil pipe line, or the republican party?
Give me a break--the "tea party" ran a bunch of candidates in the last election--remember? You guys are tea party supporters, and your "candidates" have been nothing but trouble to the R party since they were elected. Like I said--demanding that Obama either approve or deny that application on a 60 day time line just handed everything to him on a plate. He knew that Trans Canada is free to start the line without permit approval--the state department has worked hand in hand with trans canada to get this thing done from the start--they PUSHED for it. Trans Canada isn't going to face a construction delay, so the Canadians are happy with him. You forced him to deny the permit so they have to start from the beginning with the permit application process again, probably putting it off now until after the election when it could have been signed this summer--that makes the environmentalists happy. You can't really go after Obama, because Trans Canada isn't forced to wait out the delay. This whole deal is backfiring on you. If you would have waited until summer when the paper work for the reroute was completed, you really could have forced him to approve this before the elections.
You screwed up, and you've made the entire R party look stupid. Like I said--nice job.
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I mean--seriously. Can't you try for just one minute to actually read the threads before you start ranting? If you don't trust what any of us are saying who live in the high plains region, you've been given a million links to credible news sources on this thread that you obviously haven't bothered to read either. If you're questioning anything here that's your problem, because you've been given plenty of back up documentation. 
Seriously--get the h*ll out of the R party. You people screw up everything you touch.
